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The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

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  • elantan wrote: »
    Ooo independence vote at 62% ah will take that :)

    Of course it was all the SNP that unfairly tainted things ... £350m on the side of a bus wasn't unfairly tainted, and neither was all the immigration rubbish ... oh no siree twas the SNP''s fault

    Now really I need to go to sleep ... speak later

    You know as well as I do that the entire 62% won't be for independence.

    I really try to debate like an adult with you, and you continually end up posting as if I'm debating with a teenager.
    oh no siree twas the SNP''s fault

    The £350m is irrelevant in the context of what the SNP did during the EU campaign, specifically when I brought up the specific point of voting Remain with independence in mind due to the previous SNP manifesto. Asking people to vote a particular way to achieve a secondary objective to that of remaining in the EU, that's manipulating the vote.
  • Here the first paper I've found discussing the anti-English sentiment in Scotland. This is from 2003 before the SNP and its support became what they are today.

    http://www.socresonline.org.uk/9/2/mcintosh.html

    2003 ? Jeezo. :)
    It all seems so stupid it makes me want to give up.
    But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid ?
  • CLAPTON
    CLAPTON Posts: 41,865 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    2003 ? Jeezo. :)

    has it got lot worse since then?
  • Shakethedisease
    Shakethedisease Posts: 7,006 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic
    edited 15 November 2016 at 12:42AM
    No, because, in terms of the SNP at Westminster what you've said is completely irrelevant.

    They could promise every household in Scotland £1m. it doesn't matter because they'll never be in the position to be able to deliver it.

    I'm sure you've heard of the politics of opposition?

    If you're voting for a party that will not be able to shape or implement policy, that has no chance of doing so, it's a waste. It really is as simple as that and it's a fact of reality. You may think that's grim, but it's true. The pragmatic approach at Westminster (particularly from a Scottish perspective) would be to vote for those they hate the least out of those who could possibly achieve power at Westminster.

    Holyrood is different. It's important to make the distinction here that we're just on about Westminster, sending 50 odd MP's from the SNP does nothing for Scotland in reality apart from make them look like they whinge a lot. If the SNP stood across the UK with a view to trying to achieve government then it would be a different matter, but they don't, so they can never win power.
    But before the last election Labour and the Conservatives were ( in the polls ) neck and neck and it was all about the Balance of power ? That's why the SNP got so much attention and negative press, billboards etc etc. From the polls at the time it looked like the SNP might hold the balance of power in Westminster.

    There's no telling if that will be the case again in 2020 if Scotland is still in the UK. Labour might improve, maybe a new leader, May and Brexit might crash and burn. Who knows as it's a few years off yet with MP numbers. But if there's even a sniff of it happening, expect the SNP back with another 50+ MP's from Scottish voters.

    Talking of SNP MP's. This was an interesting tweet tonight.
    Dr Paul Monaghan MP ‏@_PaulMonaghan 6h6 hours ago Interesting UKGov reply today on question of proportion of Scottish exports to RUK destined for EU. They don't know. My figures suggest 75%.
    It's not so much the 75% figure which he says later is academic research which I have my doubts about. It's the fact that it's not known ? Seriously ? This needs to be A1 on the agenda. Don't want Davidson skewing facts about UK - iScotland trade v's Scotland/rUK trade and exports based on unknowns and fiddled figures - and taken as exports from Scotland to rUK which actually end up in the EU anyway.

    This definitely needs clarification if there's the slightest hint of a question mark because it's likely to be one of the only arguments for the union left.
    It all seems so stupid it makes me want to give up.
    But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid ?
  • CLAPTON wrote: »
    has it got lot worse since then?
    Not as I'm aware. My husband would probably be better placed than me to answer that being a Pompey boy. But since he goes off to work each day in the middle of Glasgow and has just secured a nice promotion from his Scottish bosses against five other of his Scottish born workmates ( who all wished him well and went for a drink afterwards ). I don't think he's got the time to bother with much in the way of wishful thinking just to suit an agenda.
    It all seems so stupid it makes me want to give up.
    But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid ?
  • TrickyTree83
    TrickyTree83 Posts: 3,930 Forumite
    edited 15 November 2016 at 12:51AM
    But before the last election Labour and the Conservatives were ( in the polls ) neck and neck and it was all about the Balance of power ? That's why the SNP got so much attention and negative press, billboards etc etc. From the polls at the time it looked like the SNP might hold the balance of power in Westminster.

    There's no telling if that will be the case again in 2020 if Scotland is still in the UK. Labour might improve, maybe a new leader, May and Brexit might crash and burn. Who knows as it's a few years off yet with MP numbers. But if there's even a sniff of it happening, expect the SNP back with another 50+ MP's from Scottish voters.

    Talking of SNP MP's. This was an interesting tweet tonight.

    It's not so much the 75% figure which he says later is academic research which I have my doubts about. It's the fact that it's not known ? Seriously ? This needs to be A1 on the agenda. Don't want Davidson skewing facts about UK - iScotland trade v's Scotland/rUK trade and exports based on unknowns and fiddled figures - and taken as exports from Scotland to rUK which actually end up in the EU anyway.

    This definitely needs clarification if there's the slightest hint of a question mark because it's likely to be one of the only arguments for the union left.

    Someone may want to point out to the Dr the proportion of trade with rUK that is purely services, and therefore not destined for the EU.
  • Someone may want to point out to the Dr the proportion of trade with rUK that is purely services, and therefore not destined for the EU.
    Someone did. It's in the twitter thread.

    But that doesn't discount the fact that a full breakdown of what goes where needs to be clarified sooner rather than later. Is good to see this aspect has been picked up on before it takes hold in every headline in every newspaper if another referendum is to be held.

    If there is any case for 'cutting out the middle man' in terms of Scottish exports routed through rUK ultimately destined for the EU then it needs to be crystal clear. Apparently the UK Govt told the Dr they 'didn't know'.
    It all seems so stupid it makes me want to give up.
    But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid ?
  • elantan
    elantan Posts: 21,022 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    I saw that tweet ... I smiled ... it's good when we start to get to the nitty gritty of a situation
  • Sturgeon stands like a doughty Celtic shield maiden in front of Trump and mini-Thatcher May's bullying.

    While The Toad Farage gloats his way around D.C. looking like a smug locust demanding independence for England and servility for Scotland, Sturgeon prepares to take a swing at Tory Fat Cat axioms.

    Scotland needs England.

    Scotland needs good relations with its neighbours, as do all countries. Scotland needs to be yoked to Tory corruption and Bullingdon anachronists and their forelock tugging worshippers like an emu needs to be stapled to a rutting wildebeest.

    Scotland can't survive on its own

    It seems to have managed for the last half a century or so just fine.

    Scotland can't afford independence

    Considering what the Tories idea of wealth looks like for those they govern, Scotland can't afford not to be.
  • beecher2
    beecher2 Posts: 3,677 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    edited 15 November 2016 at 11:26AM
    Interesting series on Brexit in the Herald today
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14905300.Beyond_Brexit__Scotland_could_be_given_a_special_status_on_immigration/
    other links should be easy to find from there.

    Good to see some thoughts being given to ways we can move forward, and proper debate on the issues.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37976004

    This interesting too and today's debate should be good - will Ruth Davidson continue to back staying in the single market, or follow the 'the UK voted to leave, and we will all leave together' line
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