The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

TrickyTree83

elantan wrote: »

H


Incidentally I'm sure you've realised and won't like me informing you that if you were to change your vote accordingly then you have accepted that what others want for your country matters and what you want for your country doesn't ... as the ones u see working hard for your country and trying to make the changes are being thwarted at every turn so you have had to change your vote .to something that others will accept to work with .. your opinion and that of your fellow country men and women doesn't matter.. that will also tell you that those that are thwarting your country at every turn do not care for you or your country ... ultimately you have admitted defeat

I sympathise with your pain in learning this ... it's not a fun place to be

Don't be condescending.

I've tried to keep this above the basement.

It's not an acceptance that my views are not taken into account, or the views of my fellow citizens are not taken into account. It's how representative democracy works.

so you have had to change your vote .to something that others will accept to work with

compromise, it's how the world works, it's how adults work, it's how marriage works, it's how business works, it's how democracy works.

Once you've cornered yourself mentally into not accepting any compromise you will continually be on the fringe in politics. The very political system that would give you the representation you desire would be proportional representation and coalition government. But you'll find in that, Scotland would have much less input and there would need to be compromise in order to come together.

Which is the whole point I'm making about an SNP vote at Westminster is wasted and that you'd be better off vote Labour as a compromise to stop the Conservatives. But that's not what happens, instead you hand them the keys to Number 10. Can you not see the irony? Along the lines of pride comes before a fall.

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Talking honestly and not from a pre-determined position I would say that my feelings towards the outcome as a Scot who hated the Conservatives would be whether the means justified the ends. Right?

Rather than just looking for "did it improve?" it would surely by a case of - in my own anti-Conservative view - not getting worse or improving. It's a guaranteed win by keeping the Conservatives out of power from that perspective.

This is why it seems that the view of voting SNP and being anti-Conservative aren't reconcilable, since voting for the SNP gives a Conservative government.

You're advocating using one's vote against something, rather than voting FOR something. That's not how it works for a lot of people casting their votes.

The more the Labour party started looking like the Conservative party in terms of policies over the last decade the more people voted for the SNP. This is unlikely to change until Labour in Scotland give people some policies they want to vote FOR again. It's as simple as that.

Playing tactics and what if's isn't what most people do when voting. Too risky and they tend to stick with voting for policies they actually like, rather than policies they don't just so that they can give someone else a shoeing at the ballot box. Is also unlikely to work in most cases unless co-ordinated tactical voting occurs on a very large scale.

TrickyTree83

elantan wrote: »

Aye right it's all the Scots fault again ... sigh ...

I didn't say that. It's just evidently clear that there's little to no angst between the other nations of the union. And only one nation in the union has voted for nationalist representation.

I've not explicitly stated anything like it's Scotland's fault, you read it and drew the conclusion.

elantan

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Don't be condescending.

I've tried to keep this above the basement.

It's not an acceptance that my views are not taken into account, or the views of my fellow citizens are not taken into account. It's how representative democracy works.



compromise, it's how the world works, it's how adults work, it's how marriage works, it's how business works, it's how democracy works.

Once you've cornered yourself mentally into not accepting any compromise you will continually be on the fringe in politics. The very political system that would give you the representation you desire would be proportional representation and coalition government. But you'll find in that, Scotland would have much less input and there would need to be compromise in order to come together.

Which is the whole point I'm making about an SNP vote at Westminster is wasted and that you'd be better off vote Labour as a compromise to stop the Conservatives. But that's not what happens, instead you hand them the keys to Number 10. Can you not see the irony? Along the lines of pride comes before a fall.

So it's democracy if the main political party representing your country in government gets constantly thwarted ? It's democracy when the wishes of your country get ignored and treated disrespectfully? Obviously that must be a step too far for you to imagine and for your blissful ignorance I am happy for you ... cause the reality when you see your countries representatives working hard and doing their best for you and being treated appallingly at EVERY SINGLE TURN ... well it really isn't good to watch and it does get people angry ... the Scotphobic treatment by WM gets people's backs up ...

And gives the call to indy more power

elantan

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

That appears to be a consequence of the aforementioned anglophobia. To me there's no apparent increase of angst from the English towards the Northern Irish or the Welsh.

Which part of consequence of aforementioned anglophobia is not blaming the Scottish ? Are you saying that it's the Welsh or Irish that display Anglophobia but that the result of that is Scotphobia?

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

You're advocating using one's vote against something, rather than voting FOR something. That's not how it works for a lot of people casting their votes.

The more the Labour party started looking like the Conservative party in terms of policies over the last decade the more people voted for the SNP. This is unlikely to change until Labour in Scotland give people some policies they want to vote FOR again. It's as simple as that.

Playing tactics and what if's isn't what most people do when voting. Too risky and they tend to stick with voting for policies they actually like, rather than policies they don't just so that they can give someone else a shoeing at the ballot box. Is also unlikely to work in most cases unless co-ordinated tactical voting occurs on a very large scale.

No, because, in terms of the SNP at Westminster what you've said is completely irrelevant.

They could promise every household in Scotland £1m. it doesn't matter because they'll never be in the position to be able to deliver it.

I'm sure you've heard of the politics of opposition?

If you're voting for a party that will not be able to shape or implement policy, that has no chance of doing so, it's a waste. It really is as simple as that and it's a fact of reality. You may think that's grim, but it's true. The pragmatic approach at Westminster (particularly from a Scottish perspective) would be to vote for those they hate the least out of those who could possibly achieve power at Westminster.

Holyrood is different. It's important to make the distinction here that we're just on about Westminster, sending 50 odd MP's from the SNP does nothing for Scotland in reality apart from make them look like they whinge a lot. If the SNP stood across the UK with a view to trying to achieve government then it would be a different matter, but they don't, so they can never win power.

TrickyTree83

elantan wrote: »

Which part of consequence of aforementioned anglophobia is not blaming the Scottish ? Are you saying that it's the Welsh or Irish that display Anglophobia but that the result of that is Scotphobia?

Why would I blame all of Scotland for the anglophobia in Scotland? That's silly.

It's purely the nationalist sentiment, the us vs them mentality that has bred this hate towards the English. There may be banter and some competitiveness between the English, Welsh and Northern Irish, and between Scots. But only one country has a nationalist regional parliament.

TrickyTree83

elantan wrote: »

So it's democracy if the main political party representing your country in government gets constantly thwarted ? It's democracy when the wishes of your country get ignored and treated disrespectfully? Obviously that must be a step too far for you to imagine and for your blissful ignorance I am happy for you ... cause the reality when you see your countries representatives working hard and doing their best for you and being treated appallingly at EVERY SINGLE TURN ... well it really isn't good to watch and it does get people angry ... the Scotphobic treatment by WM gets people's backs up ...

And gives the call to indy more power

The reason the main political party gets thwarted as you put it, is for the same reason I've outlined time and time again.

They are a regional party, standing for election to Westminster.

It doesn't put peoples backs up. Just those who voted for this situation in the first place, which is ironic yet expected. You might as well have voted for the Monster Raving Loony party, at least they stand across the entire UK, they have more of a chance at achieving a UK government than the SNP do.

elantan

I never said you blame all of Scotland but you certainly don't seem to blame anyone other than Scottish people ... so it's the Scot''s fault again ... unless you are telling me it's people from England displaying Anglophobia?

I feel you may have though hit on something ... is maybe the reason some people have problems with the Scots due to the fact Scotland has its own parliament ... in its own country ?

Are u saying you is jelous bruv ?

TrickyTree83

elantan wrote: »

I never said you blame all of Scotland but you certainly don't seem to blame anyone other than Scottish people ... so it's the Scot''s fault again ... unless you are telling me it's people from England displaying Anglophobia?

I feel you may have though hit on something ... is maybe the reason some people have problems with the Scots due to the fact Scotland has its own parliament ... in its own country ?

Are u saying you is help us bruv ?

I didn't understand what you were trying to say here.

Scottish people are fine, I have no problem with them. I've never met any of the people who post anglophobic comments on the internet in person, nor have I been subjected to it when I've visited Scotland (admittedly the tourist destinations).

I do dislike the people who say such things, and it is the only country in the union with a nationalist parliament, nationalist representation at Westminster and a nationalist movement whose contributors compose anglophobic comments. The conclusion does really draw itself.