The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

her actual position has always been no attempt at another iscotland referendum until the polls show around 60%
that was the position before brexit and will be the position after article 50 and on and on.
No new iscotland referendum until the polls are right.

As if any of us can take polls seriously these days ?

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

As if any of us can take polls seriously these days ?

with 60% she might be alright
anyway what alternative does she have ; declare UDI and invite Trump to send troops to help scotland?

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I don't think many Scots see the SNP as comparable to the Tories. Some call them Tartan Tories, other's call them Lefty Loonies. So they must be doing something right.

But it's a distaste for the Tories in wide swathes of Scotland (especially the more heavily populated West of Scotland ) and more particularly a Tory govt of the current make up that will drive sentiment as much as the EU referendum will next time around. Scottish Labour especially are going to have a far far harder time than in 2014 justifying their position.

There are also rumblings in the Scottish Lib Dem ranks. The author here talks about the conference a few days ago. He's somehow gone from being a Lib Dem candidate in the GE 2015 to an ex member.

http://www.predictableparadox.co.uk/2016/11/howling-at-moon-yep.html

That's all wonderful, but it doesn't address the point I raised.

In fact it doesn't even come close does it?

If the Scots don't like Conservative government, as a majority, which would in your eyes push through independence, why then vote for SNP MP's in Westminster?

Because voting for the SNP pretty much meant that Labour had little to no chance of winning in 2015. This meant that Scots were getting a Conservative government by their own hand. If Scots were so pro-EU, why not vote for Labour in 2015 to try to keep the Conservatives out and avoid the EU referendum?

None of it makes any sense when you're thinking about achieving an outcome, a vote for the SNP in Westminster is a wasted vote, like voting Lib Dem. So you can all sit on here and complain you have a Conservative government, and you're likely to do so for the foreseeable future, but in reality you are equally as culpable as those who vote Lib Dem for making that happen in the UK.

If you hate the Conservatives so much - what's your excuse?

elantan

Maybe because Scots no longer trust Labour either, Labour have treated Scotland terribly for such a long time now, and along comes a party that states it will stand up for the people of Scotland ... the Tories won't, Labour won't so maybe people in Scotland resoundingly decided to try something new

At the end of the day the SNP do seem to be doing their job in WM even if it is ineffectual ... which all plays into the indy debate ... win win really

TrickyTree83

elantan wrote: »

Maybe because Scots no longer trust Labour either, Labour have treated Scotland terribly for such a long time now, and along comes a party that states it will stand up for the people of Scotland ... the Tories won't, Labour won't so maybe people in Scotland resoundingly decided to try something new

At the end of the day the SNP do seem to be doing their job in WM even if it is ineffectual ... which all plays into the indy debate ... win win really

That's my point, it's not win, win, is it?

They might represent Scotland, the same way as 50 odd independents would represent Scotland in Westminster, but ultimately it's a failed experiment because they can do nothing and will never do anything.

Having them in Westminster gives you almost a guarantee of Conservative government. If you don't want a Conservative government, the logical choice would be to vote Labour no matter how they've treated Scots. At least in that situation you're going to have a chance at having representation at the top table in the land with the power to actually do something.

I don't think any of you can successfully spin the point I've made into "win, win" or even remotely adequate. If you hate the Conservatives as you claim, you're going to the wrong way about getting rid of them from government aren't you.

Lets assume indy2 happens and fails and you remain in the UK outside of the EU. Are you going to keep voting for SNP MP's so you continually get a Conservative government?

elantan

Oh it's win win ... they work hard are seen to work hard ... they pound the streets and chap the doors showing that they work hard and yet every single time they are thwarted ... Scotland is thwarted Scotland''s needs are being outvoted at every turn ... and the people are watching, people now watch WM live here, maybe not by the tens of thousands but by enough people that then let others know what's happening

How do u think that is gonna look to the electorate ?

The simplest of things asked for by the SNP are voted out, simple things steam rolled ... the people of Scotland are watching how they are being treated ... and it ain't respectfully

Win win for the indy cause

elantan

Add that to the rhetoric about how bad things like the NHS down south are doing along with grammar schools etc ... not to mention the increase in xenophobic behaviour that appears to have gripped some parts of England and Wales ... and you've got a lot for people of Scotland to decide if they want to remain a part of

CLAPTON

elantan wrote: »

Add that to the rhetoric about how bad things like the NHS down south are doing along with grammar schools etc ... not to mention the increase in xenophobic behaviour that appears to have gripped some parts of England and Wales ... and you've got a lot for people of Scotland to decide if they want to remain a part of

health out turns are better in england than scotland even if your narrative says england NHS is completely privitised and people are dying in the streets.
hate crimes in england are less than 0.001% of all crimes :

TrickyTree83

elantan wrote: »

Oh it's win win ... they work hard are seen to work hard ... they pound the streets and chap the doors showing that they work hard and yet every single time they are thwarted ... Scotland is thwarted Scotland''s needs are being outvoted at every turn ... and the people are watching, people now watch WM live here, maybe not by the tens of thousands but by enough people that then let others know what's happening

How do u think that is gonna look to the electorate ?

The simplest of things asked for by the SNP are voted out, simple things steam rolled ... the people of Scotland are watching how they are being treated ... and it ain't respectfully

Win win for the indy cause

It would look like they're in opposition and not able to do anything. Which is the point I was making, which you've also just made yourself.

Scotland is thwarted Scotland''s needs are being outvoted at every turn ... and the people are watching, people now watch WM live here, maybe not by the tens of thousands but by enough people that then let others know what's happening

Do you honestly think people would look at that and think that independence is the answer, or that they wasted their vote on a party that will be in opposition in perpetuity?

I understand that as an independence supporter that you and the SNP think independence is the answer to everything. But realistically putting yourself in the position of those you're trying to convince, having the SNP represent at Westminster isn't a good advert for voting SNP in future. Especially if you get a 2nd referendum and lose it, I would think the SNP in Westminster will be a failed experiment and they'll lose the seats because they're ineffectual in every way expect delivering Conservative government.

elantan

Exactly in opposition and yet not respected or heard, dismissed like a naughty school child and sent to bed without any supper

And yep I do believe if people are watching their representativesite being treated as rubbish constantly then eventually they will decide no more

Or are u suggesting we just accept it? Would u accept it ?