The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Moby

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

I don't agree, and most wouldn't, that voting to leave the EU to remain in the EEA/EFTA so we're outside of the customs union and can arrange our own bilateral trade deals is in line with how you're trying to portray me, and then in turn use that portrayal as a reason as to why my arguments on the economics of independence are invalid.

Should my view of how I would like our relationship with the EU to be come to fruition there will not even be an independence referendum.

Therefore my argument is based solely around the situation in which there is no single market membership, in which we would probably have another Scottish independence referendum. Then everything I've said about the risk to Scottish trade by leaving the UK and joining the EU is correct. The economics do matter, and you're tirade is misplaced and ill-conceived.

I'm simply pointing out that the Scottish people will decide whether there is to be another referendum or not. A lot of them will not care how you characterise your stance on the economics....they will just want to take back control of their country whatever the economics. The Brexit voted has tipped the balance and the SNP will use it for their own ends.

islandannie

Moby wrote: »

The thing that you and others with similar views fail to understand is that those who want Scottish independence often don't give a toss about the economics.....they want to '

take back control' of their own country.

....whatever the cost.......surely a Brexittard would understand that;)
People like Churchill didn't ever think the Republic of Ireland could ever break away from the British Empire because of the economics....but they did and I reckon most Irish people are happy they did!

No they don,t want to take control of their own country,they merely wish to hand control from the hated English/Westminster to Brussels.
There,s not an ounce of a wish for independence about it.

Moby

mrginge wrote: »

If they don't give a stuff about the economics, why is being in the EU a prerequisite for so many of them?

I'm not Scottish....... but I think independence from England while remaining in the EU is what many want because they see the economics of Brexit as disasterous.

Moby

islandannie wrote: »

No they don,t want to take control of their own country,they merely wish to hand control from the hated English/Westminster to Brussels.
There,s not an ounce of a wish for independence about it.

Of course they want control of their own country. That's why the SNP exist surely! I reckon many Scottish people don't see Brussels in the same way as the English do. Many of them see the EU as a union of States working towards a better future and solving problems through co-operation. They voted against Brexit and wish to remain in the EU....can the Union hold up against this....I doubt it sadly!

.string.

sss555s wrote: »

I'd say you've just shot yourself in the foot.

Scotland has so much clout in the UK that their overwhelming vote to remain was totally ignored.

Even a region of a Country in the EU can cause an international stir and make them reconsider, if they feel strongly about it.

I voted to remain in the EU and I lost, but I accept the democratic decision.

You apparently don't, even thought my vote, like those in Scotland and many many more in the UK were all added together to the Remain vote. I don't consider my vote was ignored. My side lost is all.

Get real.

Oh, before the knee jerk reaction, I should remind you that leaving the UK was not on that particular ballot paper.

On the other hand leaving the UK was on the ballot paper of the Scottish Referendum, and that was also a democratic decision.

I've no doubt that any small country, let alone Scotland, could make a nuisance of themselves so etimes but real influence on decisions with which it disagrees? I don't think so. That will be called democracy as well but Scotland will only be on the winning side if they vote that way. Same as everywhere, except in the Natland fantasy Utopia.

TrickyTree83

Moby wrote: »

I'm not Scottish....... but I think independence from England while remaining in the EU is what many want because they see the economics of Brexit as disasterous.

What would you advise them to do if the economic data pointed towards independence and EU membership being worse economically than sticking with the UK in a hard brexit?

What would you advise?

Carry on regardless?

Quite a few posters on here are either on a wind up or need a serious reality check.

I'm out for a bit, it's not worth the frustration.

mrginge

Moby wrote: »

I'm not Scottish....... but I think independence from England while remaining in the EU is what many want because they see the economics of Brexit as disasterous.

You just said they don't care about economics.

Make your mind up.

kabayiri

Moby wrote: »

Of course they want control of their own country. That's why the SNP exist surely! I reckon many Scottish people don't see Brussels in the same way as the English do. Many of them see the EU as a union of States working towards a better future and solving problems through co-operation. They voted against Brexit and wish to remain in the EU....can the Union hold up against this....I doubt it sadly!

If there was a different mood in Scotland then more than 2/3rd would have voted surely?

A 1/3rd could not be bothered in the EU referendum.

The next Scottish indy ref question should be simple : "Do you want to be governed by Westminster or Brussels?".

Moby

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

What would you advise them to do if the economic data pointed towards independence and EU membership being worse economically than sticking with the UK in a hard brexit?

What would you advise?

Carry on regardless?

Quite a few posters on here are either on a wind up or need a serious reality check.

I'm out for a bit, it's not worth the frustration.

I agree economics matters.....but the forces of national self determination are very powerful and are ofen irrational. I used Eire as an example.....they had little going for them but still went for it!

Moby

mrginge wrote: »

You just said they don't care about economics.

Make your mind up.

What I'm saying is some will ....some will not.................and the SNP will use economic arguments to fan the flames of nationalism. I fear that will tip the balance towards independence....sadly because I believe in the Union.
I think being a Brexitard and a Unionist in relation to Scottish independence is a hard sell being generous and completely contradictary being less generous! The 'take back control' argument was always going to be used against you by the SNP. The nuances will count for little I fear. Sturgeon needed an excuse for a new referendum and the Brexitards have offered her a big fat one:mad: