The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

mollycat

Shakethedisease wrote: »

But from your own whytepaper clips, doesn't Whisky account for a full quarter of ALL UK food and drink exports ?

And land 60% of the UK fish catch ? I don't think things are quite as simple as string deciding not to buy Scottish jam. Or a straight boycott of 64% of Scottish goods and products.

There's also the political situation on top of all that. Whereby while trade is currently an unknown and might be damaged by Scotland leaving the UK. There's still the 100% certainty of a Conservative Govt in charge perhaps for a long time. I do not say this just to annoy you, but it does have to be taken into account. Not only a Brexit Scots didn't vote for, but a Tory Govt which currently has only 1 sitting MP in Scotland implementing that, and lots of other unpopular policies in the near future in what could be an increasingly closed off UK in the next few decades. It's a huge factor whether you want to recognise it or not.

Any chance of changing the record, just a bit?

Yes, we'e got a government neither you or I voted for; it's happened numerous times during my life time and guess what, people in Newcastle, Swansea and Bangor will also be sitting with a government the didn't vote for.

It's called democracy.

The answer isn't to somehow try and persuade the gullible that we are somehow disadvantaged or getting the dirty end of the stick and, in some crazy twist of logic that we'd be better off independent.

Bankrupt the country on the basis of you and your sort being affronted that people who stand on different bits of earth all over the UK have the temerity to vote for a government you don't approve of?

No need, they'll be out of government at some point in the future as you well know; no need to sell every single working class person down the river in order to do so.

Your "window on the world" is in a right mess; you should pay for someone to give it a clean!

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

But from your own whytepaper clips, doesn't Whisky account for a full quarter of ALL UK food and drink exports ?

And land 60% of the UK fish catch ? I don't think things are quite as simple as string deciding not to buy Scottish jam. Or a straight boycott of 64% of Scottish goods and products.

There's also the political situation on top of all that. Whereby while trade is currently an unknown and might be damaged by Scotland leaving the UK. There's still the 100% certainty of a Conservative Govt in charge perhaps for a long time. I do not say this just to annoy you, but it does have to be taken into account. Not only a Brexit Scots didn't vote for, but a Tory Govt which currently has only 1 sitting MP in Scotland implementing that, and lots of other unpopular policies in the near future in what could be an increasingly closed off UK in the next few decades. It's a huge factor whether you want to recognise it or not.

Shake, for crying out loud.

I'm talking about Scottish exports, what's that got to do with Whiskey or UK exports?

Do you agree or disagree that Scottish exports to the rest of the UK are approximately 64% of all Scottish exports?

Scottish food and drink are part of that 64%, incorporating Whiskey and fish. What's your point?

Unfortunately for Scotland those trade statistics are heavily dominated by services. Legal, financial, professional (i.e. architecture).

Exports to the rest of UK (from Scotland) in 2014 (excluding oil and gas) are provisionally estimated at £48.5 billion, an increase of £1.5 billion (3.2%) over the year. Service sector exports are of greater importance to the rest of UK than internationally. £27.0 billion (56%) of rest of UK exports are attributable to service sector companies compared with 38% (£10.5 billion) of international exports.

Total international and rest of UK exports in 2014 (excluding oil and gas) are provisionally estimated at £76.0 billion an increase of £570 million (0.8%) from £75.4 billion in 2013. Rest of UK exports account for 64% of all exports from Scotland (international and rUK combined).

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!!!

Start reading the links I send. Don't leave it up to me to show you.

http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy/Exports/ESSPublication

kabayiri

Shakethedisease wrote: »

We heard all this before in the last ref, people saying they were switching en masse to English based companies for financial products etc.

However again Brexit adds significant uncertainty even to that now.

Not for me.

Anyway, I've discovered that if I want solid answers on Scottish independence, I ask your quasi IN/OUT supporter, Hamish

He gives solid answers on what currency; when the indy ref should be; price worth paying etc.

Asking SNP fans on any of this is like knitting fog!

TrickyTree83

mayonnaise wrote: »

During the brexit debate, when it was pointed out that nearly half the UK's exports go to the EU, it was always swiftly dismissed with a 'we won't stop trading with them, you fool!'.
And here you waffle on about replacing and disappearing trade. :rotfl:

You continue to try to use Brexit against me.

I've pointed out time and time again why I voted to leave. I wrote quite a long post explaining my position.

I've had to educate remainers and leavers alike what EFTA/EEA membership would mean. I'm shocked at the lack of research that's been done and can only conclude I'm in the minority who didn't listen to any of the official or un-official campaigns in making my decision.

I decided that I wanted no part of the political institutions of the EU. If we were to retain EFTA/EEA membership, including freedom of movement, schengen, and payment for single market membership then so be it. The same for if we don't have single market membership. The political institutions of the EU are corrupt and toxic, as long as we're out of that I'm happy, and that's what was on offer via the ballot paper - so I voted to leave.

We might not stop trading, we might stop trading.

What I've been outlining on this thread is how that will affect Scotland.

If you want to discuss how that will affect the UK as a whole (including Scotland) then lets take it to one of the myriad of Brexit threads.

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

Not for me.

Anyway, I've discovered that if I want solid answers on Scottish independence, I ask your quasi IN/OUT supporter, Hamish

He gives solid answers on what currency; when the indy ref should be; price worth paying etc.

Asking SNP fans on any of this is like knitting fog!

Hamish is a Scottish tory voter, sss555s and Beecher are not SNP, neither is elantan who I think ( and she can correct me if wrong ) is more Green in her leanings. Myself and I think Leanne are.

In fact there seems to be a pretty wide range of views on Scottish independence on leaning to the pro side here whether it be through Brexit or from previously held views. currently ranging from Tory right through to Green or not affiliated with any party.

This alone should speak volumes. Hamish speaks for himself and gives his own take in his answers on what's worth paying/currency etc etc. But they are very far from reflecting a wide range of views on independence, nor definitive either.

Thrugelmir

sss555s wrote: »

You're on the right lines. It's all possible and if you're not buying our jam then we will just market it elsewhere.

If there's a ready market then a business would have explored the options already. Not as simple as you suggest. Business relationships take years to foster and for brands to be known by consumers.

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Hamish is a Scottish tory voter, sss555s and Beecher are not SNP, neither is elantan who I think ( and she can correct me if wrong ) is more Green in her leanings. Myself and I think Leanne are.

Then the SNP are going to have to move more to the centre political ground. As they are the driving force behind Independence. Their proposed economic policies post IS are key to the whole debate. Easy to be anti Westminster with words. Having totally different policies though is a more difficult challenge. As in reality the limits of what can be done are extremely constrained. With a bigger stronger economy next door won't be easy to dictate either.

Shakethedisease

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Then the SNP are going to have to move more to the centre political ground. As they are the driving force behind Independence. Their proposed economic policies post IS are key to the whole debate. Easy to be anti Westminster with words. Having totally different policies though is a more difficult challenge. As in reality the limits of what can be done are extremely constrained. With a bigger stronger economy next door won't be easy to dictate either.

No. You've confused the desire for independence with the SNP. They are the political vehicle that will likely deliver it, but not the driving force behind it which is the voters themselves. The 2014 Scottish independence referendum normalised the idea, Brexit has accelerated things and now encompasses a lot of people who would never give the SNP ( should they even survive long post independence ) the time of day.

mollycat

Shakethedisease wrote: »

No. You've confused the desire for independence with the SNP. They are the political vehicle that will likely deliver it, but not the driving force behind it which is the voters themselves. The 2014 Scottish independence referendum normalised the idea, Brexit has accelerated things and now encompasses a lot of people who would never give the SNP ( should they even survive long post independence ) the time of day.

The voters themselves; right now about 30% of them, maybe.
The idea that there is a grassroots desire for independence is a nonsense; to suggest otherwise is fanciful.

The independence referendum, (once in a generation, result to be accepted as binding by both sides), decided the outcome.

Opinion presented as fact; time after time. Or wishful thinking if I'm being charitable

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Shake, for crying out loud.

I'm talking about Scottish exports, what's that got to do with Whiskey or UK exports?

Because you've got cabinet members like Leadsom waxing lyrical about opening up glorious new export and trade deals within the food and drink industry. A quarter of which comprises entirely of Scottish whisky, and where a majority of the other ( fishing ) is going back to Holyrood if the UK Brexit's outwith the single market. Going altogether if Scotland leaves.

Do you agree or disagree that Scottish exports to the rest of the UK are approximately 64% of all Scottish exports?

Yes.

Scottish food and drink are part of that 64%, incorporating Whiskey and fish. What's your point?

Unfortunately for Scotland those trade statistics are heavily dominated by services. Legal, financial, professional (i.e. architecture).


PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!!!

Start reading the links I send. Don't leave it up to me to show you.

http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy/Exports/ESSPublication

I've read them and have been for years. They are no longer set in stone after the Brexit vote. Trade is uncertain for everyone, everywhere in every sector. Mitigated completely if and independent Scotland joins EFTA or if rUK does a good deal with the EU and Scotland remains within it.

Please listen when people try to tell you that any shockingly bad deal between a hypothetical iScotland - rUK in future destroying trade. Will by it's very nature mean a shockingly bad deal between the EU and rUK destorying trade.

2 hours ago

The UK faces a "Herculean task" to negotiate new trade deals with other countries when it leaves the EU, a Holyrood committee has heard. Economists said the talks would take decades, would require concessions and would likely leave the UK worse off.
This was because the UK was "not the country most other nations are lining up to trade with".

...As the markets "start to anticipate a harder and harder Brexit, the bigger the costs are going to be," Dr Zuleeg said, as the UK would have to pursue its own trade deals with other nations.


"The question of assuming that there might be free trade agreements with all these places around the world, that might be the case but that's quite a big ask to negotiate," he said.
"It takes a lot time and will require quite a lot of giving up on the UK's side to actually get free trade deals with these places."


Dr Matias Margulis, an economist from the University of Stirling, said: "I just want to echo how much of a Herculean task it is going to be for the British government to not only renegotiate its trade relationship with the EU, but also with all the existing 50 countries the EU has preferential trading agreements with that the UK currently enjoys.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-37838890