The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Yes I have said on a number of occasions. You haven't given any credible reason or grounds so far on why the EU wouldn't want to have any formal discussion with Scotland. Apart from 'reasons'.

Could you elaborate maybe ?

The UK isn't going to interfere with the internal affairs of Catalonia or any other region of the EU. There's nothing in the EU constitution allowing member states to do so.

.string.

Regarding the Single Market;

Canada and the EU signed a Trade Agreement the other day as most will have noted:

see here:
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-16-3581_en.htm
and here
http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2014/september/tradoc_152806.pdf

From the first link:

The deal will benefit exporters, big and small, creating opportunities for European and Canadian companies and their employees, as well as for consumers. Almost all – 99 percent – of import duties will be eliminated, saving European exporters of industrial goods and agricultural products more than €500 million a year. As the EU's most advanced and progressive trade agreement to date, CETA is a landmark accord that sets the benchmark for future agreements. It includes the most ambitious chapters on sustainable development, labour and the environment ever agreed upon in bilateral trade agreements. CETA will not solely help boost trade and economic activity, but also promote and protect shared values.

Not too bad as a precedent to build on, noting that "CETA is a landmark accord that sets the benchmark for future agreements."

Superficial reading indicates to me that the treaty does not restrict the freedom of Canada to explore and conduct other international trade agreements which, if correct, would remove a major (actually insurmountable) restriction of full membership of the Single Market.


It looks good for a favourable result from Brexit Negotiations which will be better (repeat better) than the Single Market straitjacket.

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Still sticking with the same tired old 2014 Spain thing then. Scotland's situation is nothing like the Catalonia one.

Care to elaborate?

.string.

CLAPTON wrote: »

what an infantile comment

there are about 9 million immigrants within the UK at the moment
EVERY SINGLE one of them is free to move to scotland right now.

They don't go to scotland from choice.

She wants more EU "citizens" to coerce into voting for her.

kabayiri

.string. wrote: »

She wants more EU "citizens" to coerce into voting for her.

You could perhaps understand this if Scotland were a current destination for the vast majority of EU migrant workers.

But it's not.

Just 8K of the last 270K (ish from memory).

The biggest destinations for these workers are London and East of England. If you visit somewhere like Boston it's not hard to see why. There is ready made infrastructure; shops and services geared up.

The migration issue is an excuse. SNP policy has clearly failed to attract large large numbers of migrant workers.

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

You could perhaps understand this if Scotland were a current destination for the vast majority of EU migrant workers.

But it's not.

Just 8K of the last 270K (ish from memory).

The biggest destinations for these workers are London and East of England. If you visit somewhere like Boston it's not hard to see why. There is ready made infrastructure; shops and services geared up.

The migration issue is an excuse. SNP policy has clearly failed to attract large large numbers of migrant workers.

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There is no immigration policy from the SNP nor indeed from any Scottish Govt up until now. That's kind of the point of devolving it ?

The biggest problem would be demography. Too few people work, an imbalance that will soon deteriorate. In 2012 there were 3.2 working-age people for every Scottish pensioner, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS). By 2037 there will be just 2.6. In a recent paper Michael Amior, Rowena Crawford and Gemma Tetlow of the Institute for Fiscal Studies, a think-tank, examined ageing, migration and the birth rate. The trends they observed suggest that, over the next 50 years, the Scottish workforce will actually shrink (the rest of Britain’s will grow). The number of pensioners will rise.

http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21606869-independent-scotland-would-be-rich-country-terrible-prospects-costly-solitude

Brexit will only make things much worse for Scotland which has vastly different demographic challenges facing it.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

You have been given reasons many times:

Just one is enough:

Scotland is part of the UK until the UK agrees it is not or agrees that Scotland will become separated. The EU will not meddle in another country's internal affairs and for that reason will not discuss anything of substance with the SNP until that time.

But after independence ?

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

But after independence ?

Pigs will fly.

Shakethedisease

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Care to elaborate?

Sure. In fact a must read for anyone who wants to delve a bit further into the 'But Spain/Catalonia' headlines. Enjoy the read(s). And also remember Gibraltar is now also in the mix.

Rajoy said quite categorically that if the UK leaves the EU, then Scotland leaves with it. He has ruled out any possibility of Scotland managing to remain a part of the EU while also remaining a part of the UK. He also said that the EU cannot enter negotiations with a part of a state so that it can remain within the EU even though the state it is a part of has just voted to leave. But Rajoy said nothing at all about the European status of an independent Scotland.

Rajoy was notably silent on the possibility of Scotland holding a referendum and voting for independence before the Brexit occurs. In fact he ended his statement with the remark, “Whatever happens in the future, that’s not for me to say,” a comment which wasn’t reported in the British press. The Brexit won’t occur for at least two years after the UK Government invokes Article 50 and commences negotiations to leave the EU: if Scotland holds an independence referendum before then and votes for independence, we’re in a whole different game. Already the Belgian press is reporting that the EU is willing to allow Scotland to take over the UK’s EU membership, as long as we go for independence before Brexit.

There’s a common assumption amongst Unionists that Rajoy would veto an independent Scotland in order to discourage the Catalans, but that’s all it is, an assumption. Their belief is based upon a profound misunderstanding of the Spanish political system.

Madrid’s opposition to a Catalan independence referendum is based upon a clause in the Spanish constitution which states that Spain is “una e indivisible”, one and indivisible, and that the territory of the Spanish state is the patrimony of all of the people of Spain.

Madrid claims a Catalan independence referendum would be unconstitutional, and refuses to countenance one. For a similar reason Spain refuses to recognise the independence of Kosovo, which Serbia claims is unconstitutional according to the Serbian constitution. However, none of this applies to Scottish independence.

Scottish independence, when it comes, will be entirely legal and constitutional. It will be recognised by the Westminster Parliament. That means that Spain will not have a problem with it and will have no grounds to veto Scottish membership of the EU. Back in February 2014, Spanish foreign minister Jos!-Manuel Garc!a-Margallo was asked about Spain’s response to Scottish independence, and insisted that the two situations were “fundamentally different”. Pressed on the issue, he replied: “If Britain’s constitutional order allows – and it seems that it does allow – Scotland to choose independence, we have nothing to say about this.”

http://www.thenational.scot/comment/wee-ginger-dug-dont-be-misled-spain-has-never-vowed-to-veto-scottish-membership-of-the-eu.19493

Mariano Rajoy comes from Galicia, and represents the city of A Coruña in the Spanish parliament, the Cortes. The mainstay of the local economy is the fishing industry, and big fishing interests are the main funders of Rajoy’s own local party.

The Galician fishing fleet depends on its access to Scottish waters in order to feed Spain’s enormous appetite for seafood, and any attempt by Spain to veto Scottish membership of the EU would threaten that access. Rajoy would then find that his local party’s bank balance was as empty as the fish counter in a Spanish supermarket. He’s not going to let that happen.

https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2016/06/25/an-argument-as-rank-and-rotten-as-a-two-year-old-fish/

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

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There is no immigration policy from the SNP nor indeed from any Scottish Govt up until now. That's kind of the point of devolving it ?

http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21606869-independent-scotland-would-be-rich-country-terrible-prospects-costly-solitude

Brexit will only make things much worse for Scotland which has vastly different demographic challenges facing it.

Wow, are we as a people genuinely saying that demographic problems can only be sorted by inward migration and that promoting the family and making 2+ children affordable again isn't also a solution?