The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

TrickyTree83

beecher2 wrote: »

Sigh. I think Effie's writing is awful, infantile nonsense. I was wondering what others thought who were maybe more neutral. I think it is more widely read than the one you cite.

ooohhh so now the readership counts more than factual evidence?

Ok, so Shakey says anyone can write any old bias crap on the internet.

You think that the readership matters.

I think that facts and honesty matter.

I wonder which one really does matter, it can't be all 3.

TrickyTree83

beecher2 wrote: »

I assume he doesn't feel like a European but can't understand that some people living in Scotland don't regard themselves as British. (62% described themselves as Scottish not British in last census though I expect that's changed after referendum)

Because of the toxic message perpetrated by the SNP and it's followers.

That's precisely the point I was making.

beecher2

mollycat wrote: »

Keep reading folks; day after day, post after post, ridiculous assertion after ridiculous assertion.....this is the best advertisement for rejecting Scottish Independence out there!!

Can you give me a vision of the type of Scotland you'd like to live in mollycat? I've tried to describe mine. Also, any thoughts on KF's article?

TrickyTree83

elantan wrote: »

Why don't you want to help out your fellow European? Your all part of one Europe

If you keep editing I'll have to keep replying multiple times.

I've told you I would happily remain in the EEA/EFTA arrangement.

FoM - fine.
Pay into the single market - fine.

Restricting our ability to trade with whom we want - not fine. We should aim to have free trade with as many people as possible, including the EU.

beecher2

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

ooohhh so now the readership counts more than factual evidence?

Ok, so Shakey says anyone can write any old bias crap on the internet.

You think that the readership matters.

I think that facts and honesty matter.

I wonder which one really does matter, it can't be all 3.

Genuinely don't know what you're on about. I'm not Shakey. Do you have any actual comments on Effie Deans or not?

kabayiri

beecher2 wrote: »

Tricky do you just want to win an argument, or do you want to change our minds? You've posted endlessly, sometimes at 1am and I find it hard to understand to be honest. I get that economics and facts are really important to you, but I just want to live in a country which makes its own decisions. I believe wellbeing would improve and we would have policies to tackle inequality. The kind of Scotland I want to live in is the debate I want to have, not this never ending 'you can't do it, look at GERS' drivel.

I have no problem personally with your independence quest. We all ultimately protect our own interests.

I don't want anything to derail the most important negotiations we have been involved in for decades : namely Article 50.

For me, there is nothing to be gained by disrupting matters with a rushed independence referendum.

After Article 50, fill yer boots, so to speak.

TrickyTree83

beecher2 wrote: »

Genuinely don't know what you're on about. I'm not Shakey. Do you have any actual comments on Effie Deans or not?

I've not read it.

I'll take the time to read on it and comment on it if you wish.

I'm simply trying to get someone from the pro-independence support to acknowledge the veracity of the claims on the Wytepaper, instead of calling it bias, diatribe, or whatever else when actually it's only dealing in numbers which are signed off by the Scottish government, endorsed by the SNP, and clearly tell you that independence would be a bad choice for where Scotland is economically right now.

As I've been saying for many posts now.

beecher2

kabayiri wrote: »

I have no problem personally with your independence quest. We all ultimately protect our own interests.

I don't want anything to derail the most important negotiations we have been involved in for decades : namely Article 50.

For me, there is nothing to be gained by disrupting matters with a rushed independence referendum.

After Article 50, fill yer boots, so to speak.

the timing's tricky and I don't see the point in having it before we know what kind of Brexit there is going to be.

TrickyTree83

beecher2 wrote: »

the timing's tricky and I don't see the point in having it before we know what kind of Brexit there is going to be.

Ah ha, finally, some semblance of reason!

You are correct on this point. Until the deal is ratified (because up until that point it can still change) Scots won't know what they're voting on. It would be unfair to ask Scottish people which way they want to jump before knowing the options that are in front of them.

TrickyTree83

beecher2 wrote: »

Tricky do you just want to win an argument, or do you want to change our minds? You've posted endlessly, sometimes at 1am and I find it hard to understand to be honest. I get that economics and facts are really important to you, but I just want to live in a country which makes its own decisions. I believe wellbeing would improve and we would have policies to tackle inequality. The kind of Scotland I want to live in is the debate I want to have, not this never ending 'you can't do it, look at GERS' drivel.

Why is Brexit bad according to Nicola Sturgeon?

Because you'll lose 80,000 jobs? Because you'll jeopardise 11% of your external trade?

Turn that lens on Scotland's relations with the rUK.

How many jobs will you risk there, how much trade will you risk there? What will your GDP drop by? How much tax revenue will you lose there?

Take that on top of GERS and the IFS using agreed, authentic and accurate (to +/- £0.5bn) statistics that shows even without the above Scotland will have a deficit, a massive deficit of nearly 10% of GDP.

So if your starting point is a deficit of 10% of GDP, lose Barnett, lose tax revenue, lose GDP, that percentage grows.

The cuts you will need will be on the same scale as Greece, maybe worse. I don't want to see British people go through that for some misguided nationalism.

That's why I post here.

When the economic argument makes sense, when Scots will be better off outside of the Union, I won't have a leg to stand on.