The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

beecher2

I have an off topic question - why do some Yoons call Nicola Sturgeon Elsie?

elantan

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

And now we've moved away from the salient points of the conversation to discuss why I'm even posting here, why elantan is a man and why blogs can or cannot be trusted.

Surely if independence is the right choice, the easy choice, there must be an economic golden goose somewhere.

Because when people realise their pensions are gone, they will retire at 75 and have nothing, their jobs will leave for the very place they've just voted to secede from, tuition is no longer free, prescriptions must be paid for, the cost of living soars, there's going to be a hell of a lot of angry people in Scotland, angry with you lot, the SNP, and the dishonest memes saying "Yes we can!".

i know what on earth has my gender got to do with anything ... so why mention it at all

Imagine how angry some people are just now at being dragged out of the EU ... Hamish is that angry he would consider voting for independence ... I dont think you quite understand how angry some people are at being forced to live under the control of WM either ... And dont worry about pensions ... If weve paid into the pot we get it ... Just like if we live in Spain or Canada and have paid into the pot ... unless your telling me the UK is in such dire straits there is no pot left? in which case what ya gonna do yourself ?

mollycat

beecher2 wrote: »

I agree with much of what you say. The only real difference is that I don't want to feel that I live in a country which receives pocket money from the UK and is seen as a subsidy junkie by some. I want us to stand on our own two feet and make our own decisions.

I am fearful of Conservative domination of UK politics and do feel aggrieved that we have a tory government when they only have 1 MP in Scotland - that does seem to me to be a democratic deficit, but am aware that someone who saw themselves as British wouldn't see things the same way as me.

I suppose what I'm saying is that it isn't all down to GERS figures and where Scotland stands right now as part of the UK. It is about how we could be in the future as an independent nation.

I think this is the crux of the matter....

People like yourself think you are quite happy to give up things that actually matter, (detailed in TT83 post #4351), so you can avoid the discomfort of living in a part of the UK that is subsidised by the rest, and also avoid the affront of a Tory government, (even though much worse austerity would occur in any iScotland).

I think these are indulgences that are not consistent with continuing to live in an affluent, politically stable environment and people would quickly regret what they had discarded for a spurious "control" of their destinys.

Not for me.

TrickyTree83

beecher2 wrote: »

From KF's article today

I see.

Where's the evidence for that because the polls don't show this perspective he portrays.

The polls show the Scots don't want another referendum, despite what he says.

The polls show that independence is still in the minority, despite what he says.

I stopped taking on board what journalists write long ago, that is one persons opinion, not the reality according to the statistics.

Does this journalists opinion matter more that Jeremy Clarkson, Katie Hopkins or Owen Jones? Not really.

Is this one journalist correct, or are the multitude of polls showing the opposite of this gentleman's opinion correct? I know where the weight of probability falls for me.

TrickyTree83

elantan wrote: »

i know what on earth has my gender got to do with anything ... so why mention it at all

Imagine how angry some people are just now at being dragged out of the EU ... Hamish is that angry he would consider voting for independence ... I dont think you quite understand how angry some people are at being forced to live under the control of WM either ... And dont worry about pensions ... If weve paid into the pot we get it ... Just like if we live in Spain or Canada and have paid into the pot ... unless your telling me the UK is in such dire straits there is no pot left? in which case what ya gonna do yourself ?

Ah, you'll get your pension, and you won't be in the country, so it's fine. Screw the rest of the working age Scots who will likely not have the pension you have, will likely have to work longer than their UK counterparts because you voted to screw the Scottish economy even more than a hard brexit will.

:T

Where is this revulsion in the polls?

Where is the appetite for this 2nd referendum in the opinion polls?

It's not there, you, the indy supporters and the SNP are deluding yourselves.

elantan

How is me leaving the country screwing the rest of them up? do you think I am that amazing? Yes I am flattered that you do ,, but come on... lets be realistic here ... i'm just a person doing the best they can for their country and themself I will have sacrificed a lot for my country by the time we get indy but I am ok with it as I know it will help the future generations of my countrymen and women. A sacrifice i deem worth paying. Unlike a lot of the selfish people that would keep us begging from WM for what should rightfully be ours, and asking permission for things we shouldnt need to ...

now thats what i call selfish

beecher2

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

I see.

Where's the evidence for that because the polls don't show this perspective he portrays.

The polls show the Scots don't want another referendum, despite what he says.

The polls show that independence is still in the minority, despite what he says.

I stopped taking on board what journalists write long ago, that is one persons opinion, not the reality according to the statistics.

Does this journalists opinion matter more that Jeremy Clarkson, Katie Hopkins or Owen Jones? Not really.

Is this one journalist correct, or are the multitude of polls showing the opposite of this gentleman's opinion correct? I know where the weight of probability falls for me.

Well he has a vote, and none of the ones you mention does so yes, his opinion does matter more. He was a very strong No voter and the tenor of this article is very different from previous ones, although he's been hoping for federalism for a while now. He's on a journey which reminds me of Iain MacWhirter's and i think the article will be of interest to many.

elantan

And now I really need to get on with writing my research paper ... will pop back when I get a wee min ... but try not to be nasty while I am away

TrickyTree83

beecher2 wrote: »

Well he has a vote, and none of the ones you mention does so yes, his opinion does matter more. He was a very strong No voter and the tenor of this article is very different from previous ones, although he's been hoping for federalism for a while now. He's on a journey which reminds me of Iain MacWhirter's and i think the article will be of interest to many.

It doesn't.

An unemployed person has the same number of votes as your journalist, a millionaire, an SNP zealot, or an SNP MP.

One.

One person has written an article saying that he hates his perception of what is happening in the UK. That will not convince people to vote for independence, as evident from the polls.

TrickyTree83

elantan wrote: »

How is me leaving the country screwing the rest of them up? do you think I am that amazing? Yes I am flattered that you do ,, but come on... lets be realistic here ... i'm just a person doing the best they can for their country and themself I will have sacrificed a lot for my country by the time we get indy but I am ok with it as I know it will help the future generations of my countrymen and women. A sacrifice i deem worth paying. Unlike a lot of the selfish people that would keep us begging from WM for what should rightfully be ours, and asking permission for things we shouldnt need to ...

now thats what i call selfish

Just entertain for a moment in your mind that the economic statistics are correct.

Have a cuppa and think what that might mean for an independent Scotland in the EU where a material change in circumstance takes place between the UK and the EU (i.e. not single market membership).

Then let me know what you think would happen in that situation and we'll see if we can agree or disagree as to whether that would be screwing over future generations of Scots or not.