The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Thrugelmir

beecher2 wrote: »

The arguments will definitely be different this time, especially of the tories and Scotland in Union take a driving seat.

Seriously? Is that a debatable subject. More likely just a load of nonsensical air spouted by activists in an attempt to rally the dying cause. Ultimately people will vote for whatever is best for them personally, i.e. financially. Politics goes out of the window. Economic management is king.

TrickyTree83

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Seriously? Is that a debatable subject or just a load of nonsensical air. Ultimately people will vote for whatever is best for them personally, i.e. financially. Politics goes out of the window. Economic management is king.

Unless they're not told about the reality and believe a load of guff perpetrated by the independence movement.

Then they'll happily vote away their prosperity thinking that everything will be fine.

I don't believe for a second these people beecher2 speaks about sit there and say:

"I've changed my mind, I'll vote for independence. I'm aware of the financial problems, those Tories though!!! Ugh!!"

If those people will be hit by tax rises and service spending cuts will they still think the Tories are the nasty/austerity party?

beecher2

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Seriously? Is that a debatable subject. More likely just a load of nonsensical air spouted by activists in an attempt to rally the dying cause. Ultimately people will vote for whatever is best for them personally, i.e. financially. Politics goes out of the window. Economic management is king.

The debate will have a different tone if the tories and Scotland and Union are in charge. The arguments will be different because of the political changes we've seen since 2014 too - can't repeat that we're only safe in the EU with a no vote etc. Read KF's article about the reasons people vote in a referendum - as I've said before, not everyone thinks the same way.

beecher2

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

I don't believe for a second these people beecher2 speaks about sit there and say:

"I've changed my mind, I'll vote for independence. I'm aware of the financial problems, those Tories though!!! Ugh!!"

that's not what I meant, and I'm pretty sure you know that.

Thrugelmir

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Unless they're not told about the reality and believe a load of guff perpetrated by the independence movement.

Such as Salmond switching the topic to the NHS and avoiding the economy entirely. Simply left a void of unanswered questions. Which in turn raises doubts. There's enough sensible people to see the smoke screen for what it is. When you treat people as being stupid then you are onto a loser. As they'll feel insulted and act in negative way in response.

TrickyTree83

beecher2 wrote: »

The debate will have a different tone if the tories and Scotland and Union are in charge. The arguments will be different because of the political changes we've seen since 2014 too - can't repeat that we're only safe in the EU with a no vote etc. Read KF's article about the reasons people vote in a referendum - as I've said before, not everyone thinks the same way.

Then they're stupid or misinformed aren't they!

What's the point in being able to say "We govern ourselves, but we've got no health service, a micro pension, and people are leaving because employment here sucks and taxes are high. But way to go us, we govern ourselves!".

It's anti-logic.

I've laid it out, I've linked you to really in depth Scottish academic studies on the impact of implementing a border. We know GERS is acceptable, it's acceptable to the SNP, it's acceptable to the Scottish government, it's acceptable to everyone apart from those whose dreams it destroys.

kabayiri

elantan wrote: »

...
And dont worry about pensions ... If weve paid into the pot we get it ... Just like if we live in Spain or Canada and have paid into the pot ... unless your telling me the UK is in such dire straits there is no pot left? in which case what ya gonna do yourself ?

I don't know where you get this "pot" concept from.

Regards the basic state pension, it was paid out of current taxation 10 years ago; it will be paid for by current taxation today; and if nothing changes future tax payers will pick up the bill in the future.

This is one of the reasons Hamish goes on about attracting more and more migrant workers...to pay for the growing number of pensioners.

As an independent country, Scotland could adopt the same model. Pay the basic state pension from taxation receipts. There are alternatives, such as the Oz model, if you prefer.

But there is no pot to draw from, just as there is no pot for rUK.

TrickyTree83

kabayiri wrote: »

I don't know where you get this "pot" concept from.

Regards the basic state pension, it was paid out of current taxation 10 years ago; it will be paid for by current taxation today; and if nothing changes future tax payers will pick up the bill in the future.

This is one of the reasons Hamish goes on about attracting more and more migrant workers...to pay for the growing number of pensioners.

As an independent country, Scotland could adopt the same model. Pay the basic state pension from taxation receipts. There are alternatives, such as the Oz model, if you prefer.

But there is no pot to draw from, just as there is no pot for rUK.

As I understood there is a pot, but it's something like less than 10% of the overall unfunded liabilities, could be wrong about that, I seem to recall reading something like that somewhere though.

kabayiri

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

As I understood there is a pot, but it's something like less than 10% of the overall unfunded liabilities, could be wrong about that, I seem to recall reading something like that somewhere though.

Isn't that the additional component funded by NI though?

It is something that a newly independent Scotland would not want to leave to chance.

TrickyTree83

kabayiri wrote: »

Isn't that the additional component funded by NI though?

It is something that a newly independent Scotland would not want to leave to chance.

Probably yeah.

Well a newly independent Scotland would have to find some way to finance all of these commitments, maintain spending to maintain the current standard of living, deal with the deficit, try not to raise taxes (you don't want an exodus of talent), etc...etc...

They've clearly not through this through as it appears a hatred of Westminster (Tories in particular) is sufficient enough to justify voting for austerity.

Good job!