The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

kabayiri

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Probably yeah.

Well a newly independent Scotland would have to find some way to finance all of these commitments, maintain spending to maintain the current standard of living, deal with the deficit, try not to raise taxes (you don't want an exodus of talent), etc...etc...
...

Any 'problem' for iScotland is an opportunity for others, most notably rUK.

For example, they could leverage future sales on oil, as a way of funding a short term revenue gap.

If the rUK government were savvy, it would be very well placed to negotiate some excellent deals for rUK.

Whilst iScotland could sell rUK a few services, there are a lot of services which could be sold the other way.

Is it not an opportunity?

TrickyTree83

kabayiri wrote: »

Any 'problem' for iScotland is an opportunity for others, most notably rUK.

For example, they could leverage future sales on oil, as a way of funding a short term revenue gap.

If the rUK government were savvy, it would be very well placed to negotiate some excellent deals for rUK.

Whilst iScotland could sell rUK a few services, there are a lot of services which could be sold the other way.

Is it not an opportunity?

Both benefit from the integrated market, it's grown up through the industrial revolution as an integrated market, having borders is just going to hurt trade, I posted two articles about the "border effect" earlier on. I doubt any have read it though.

Thrugelmir

beecher2 wrote: »

The debate will have a different tone if the tories and Scotland and Union are in charge. The arguments will be different because of the political changes we've seen since 2014 too - can't repeat that we're only safe in the EU with a no vote etc. Read KF's article about the reasons people vote in a referendum - as I've said before, not everyone thinks the same way.

What about Nicola employing 46 spin doctors at a cost of £5 million a year. If there's any truth in the story. Won't go down well with taxpayers at a time of belt tightening austerity. As really is a miss use of both office and power.

Shakethedisease

beecher2 wrote: »

I know 2 people who voted No and would now vote Yes just to get the inevitable out of the way. Not a representative sample I know, but I found it fascinating speaking to them. The arguments will definitely be different this time, especially of the tories and Scotland in Union take a driving seat.

Agree about Kevin McKenna and I do wonder if Alex Massie (whose writing I like a lot) will vote no next time round - I suppose his dad might never speak to him again if he admitted it

Alex Massie I like too. He's very pragmatic and realistic from a Unionist point of view.

( warning anecdote ) My area was 50/50 in the last referendum. My dad can't stand the SNP and was there early in the morning to cast his No vote. He goes for a few pints on a Saturday with several others after the local football match. All of them ex-steelworkers, shop stewards, union men. Real old school Labour. From what he tells me ( he knows I'm interested ) hardly any of them voted in May, they think Dugdale and surprisingly Corbyn are a waste of time. Many of them won't vote No or Yes next time. Voting No to endorse a Tory Govt, especially a very right wing one in power over Scotland just isn't something old school Labour men like my dad want to contemplate. Not when they've spend the best part of their lives voting in elections to prevent it.

There's a lot of concentration in polls over those who will vote one way or another. Not much in the way of those who voted No with bells on in 2014, hating Salmond and sure of a new shiny new Labour govt soon.. but definitely won't be out doing the same if there's a next time.

Things like you say are very different now.

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Both benefit from the integrated market, it's grown up through the industrial revolution as an integrated market, having borders is just going to hurt trade, I posted two articles about the "border effect" earlier on. I doubt any have read it though.

We all know what you're going on about. But the border effect you keep talking about is looking less and less likely. Firstly because of promises given to NI/Eire and secondly because yesterday's deal with Nissan means everyone is speculating that the UK will stay in the customs union in some form or the EEA.

Shakethedisease

Thrugelmir wrote: »

What about Nicola employing 46 spin doctors at a cost of £5 million a year. If there's any truth in the story. Won't go down well with taxpayers at a time of belt tightening austerity. As really is a miss use of both office and power.

I haven't heard this story. Was in in the Daily Express ? If so I guess the truth part goes out of the window. Very little of their Scottish based reporting is true.

beecher2

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I haven't heard this story. Was in in the Daily Express ? If so I guess the truth part goes out of the window. Very little of their Scottish based reporting is true.

It was a Siobhan Mcfadyen article. Say no more

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

We all know what you're going on about. But the border effect you keep talking about is looking less and less likely. Firstly because of promises given to NI/Eire and secondly because yesterday's deal with Nissan means everyone is speculating that the UK will stay in the customs union in some form or the EEA.

Speculation is not a foregone conclusion.

What of the rest of the economic data?

mollycat

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Alex Massie I like too. He's very pragmatic and realistic from a Unionist point of view.

( warning anecdote ) My area was 50/50 in the last referendum. My dad can't stand the SNP and was there early in the morning to cast his No vote. He goes for a few pints on a Saturday with several others after the local football match. All of them ex-steelworkers, shop stewards, union men. Real old school Labour. From what he tells me ( he knows I'm interested ) hardly any of them voted in May, they think Dugdale and surprisingly Corbyn are a waste of time. Many of them won't vote No or Yes next time. Voting No to endorse a Tory Govt, especially a very right wing one in power over Scotland just isn't something old school Labour men like my dad want to contemplate. Not when they've spend the best part of their lives voting in elections to prevent it.

There's a lot of concentration in polls over those who will vote one way or another. Not much in the way of those who voted No with bells on in 2014, hating Salmond and sure of a new shiny new Labour govt soon.. but definitely won't be out doing the same if there's a next time.

Things like you say are very different now.

Yeah, yeah, you've established your working class credentials.

You've established your hatred for the tories.

Why this is relevant in this debate is beyond me.

Why on earth a you campaigning for an outcome which will devastate the lives of the poor, the vulnerable and anyone who requires a robust state led level of services.

If we were ever in the nightmare scenario of massive cuts to services, a currency not worth the paper it's printed on, an economy from the dark ages and zero influence in the world, I don't think many people will be interested in "we got rid of the tories"

It seems independence supporters are quite happy for Scots to suffer austerity as a price worth paying for imagined "control".

ps Any chance of answering Clapton's oft asked query regarding which currency we would use?

mollycat

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I haven't heard this story. Was in in the Daily Express ? If so I guess the truth part goes out of the window. Very little of their Scottish based reporting is true.

In your blinkered, biased opinion of course. :rotfl::rotfl: