The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

elantan

I tell you what tricky seeing as it obviously matters a lot to you ... talk me out of wanting independence

Moto2

elantan wrote: »

I tell you what tricky seeing as it obviously matters a lot to you ... talk me out of wanting independence

You may just have to pay more duty on a bottle of Buckie?

kabayiri

sss555s wrote: »

I think trade both ways would be similar even if there was a few spit their dummy out.

Why? Genuine question by the way.

I personally believe that Brexit in whatever form is a watershed moment. It is an acknowledgement that the EU and UK may follow different paths. We may even diverge.

By the same token, an independent Scotland over time is just a competitor with rUK, much like Denmark or Eire. Scotland will try to attract business from rUK and vice versa.

For example, you will have your own retail banks, but as someone in England I would certainly not keep my saving and business accounts in a bank based in a foreign country.

People will make small decisions like this, and over time we will diverge.

kabayiri

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Well that's absolute crap. The opinion of a shrilling liberal journo does not indicate anything other than you should stop reading what they write.
...

No one person, even a shrill journo, speaks for all America. It's simplistic projection.

Is she suggesting that we should take our guidance from what Americans on the street are saying?! What kind of independence is that?

kabayiri

elantan wrote: »

I tell you what tricky seeing as it obviously matters a lot to you ... talk me out of wanting independence

If independence led to the eventual break up of Scotland, like Eire / NI, would you consider it a price worth paying?

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

If independence led to the eventual break up of Scotland, like Eire / NI, would you consider it a price worth paying?

You're in fantasy hypothetical 'whooo the fear' politics land.

One thing that has become very clear in the last few years, is just how much of a political irrelevance Scotland has become, or perhaps always was and we've just woken up to it when it comes to Westminster.

The fact that Nissan has been taken step by step through the Governments plans for Brexit 'to reassure', when just two days beforehand the elected leaders of Scotland, Wales and NI were told absolutely sod all is absolutely gobsmacking.

Will backfire badly in the next few weeks and months.

* quick someone thank me even if you don't mean it am on 10,999 ;-)

skintmacflint

Shakethedisease wrote: »

There's a problem when people get all their information from reading mainly biased blogs and media reports like most non-Scottish living posters on this board do. I've said already that the people who know best what it's actually like to live under an SNP government in Holyrood are those who actually do.

Correct. That is why in 2014 we rejected our Scottish Governemnt's proposal for Independence. In approx 29 out of 32 voting areas.

The NHS and other public services are another example of this. We constantly hear in print and on tv about various public sector crisis's and how the SNP should get on with the day job. Yet in day to day life we don't simply do not recognise this to be the case.

But we do see this is the case in figures and real life. Eg I've already mentioned while volunteering in a youth centre, the kids aged 14 from a wide background mix couldn't spell or count to save themselves. None could score more than 9 out of 20 in prize fun quizzes with questions taken from a book aimed at 12 year olds

As an example the SNP is under fire once again today for missing NHS targets.

A&E patients seen on time:
Scotland: 94% [-1% below target]
England: 87% [-8%]
Wales: 76% [-19%]
NI: 75% [-20%]

Newspapers and tv/radio this morning are all running with the OMG NHS is in crisis line. Therefore this is what people like you will read about if you search online for it. But from the figures ( taken as example ) of A and E waiting times. You can see where context has been completely missed, the wrong picture emerges and this eventually becomes the 'accepted' fact. 'SNP are ruining the NHS'.

A lot of Scots who live and visit the local NHS or hospitals simply don't see these figures and narratives as matching their own day to day experiences. As you can see from this just before the election.



Another poll, with figures which seem to be more politically decided than anything else. As someone who regularly has need of NHS both as in and outpatient I can assure you our NHS is barely coping. Outpatient reappointments being delayed by an extra 3 months, consultants complaining they're understaffed and overloaded. As an in patient for several weeks, I noticed loads of nursing assistants, but a doctor or nurse not to be found for hours at a time.
Around 20 maybe 25% of our NHS staff off on long term sick.

In addition to all this all of our services are being centralised. Wards closed, being moved out to the bigger but further away hospitals. Councils , you can't directly call a department now, calls ate taken by centralised call centres, who pass an email message of your query to the dept. Who then decide whether to contact you a few days later. Services subcontracted out, so council staff no longer know who exactly deals with what anymore. Same with the police services, our local police station shut down, now covered by a unit located 10 to 15 miles away., and again controlled by a call centre.

---

One many Scots who live here don't agree with obviously, since as an electorate they trust the SNP and vote for them more than any other party.

More nonsense. Many Yes/Ind supporters as a movement, will simply vote and praise SNP in polls regardless , of polcies as they view SNP as the vehicle to Independence. You've said so yourself many times. Willing to sacrifice many things for a time in order to gain 'their prize' of Independence.

The simple fact SNP and Independence are't gaining new ground despite all their spin, divisiveness and Brexit nonsense should be enough to tell you all you need to know. Sturgeon knows it, SNP are presently on the long road downhill, and no amount of polls, flag waving , paint facing rallies and family days out are going to change that.

mollycat

The_Last_Username wrote: »

Are you beginning to understand now why myself and a few others only occasionally "stick our oars in"?
Do you begin to see what happens when logic and fact are used in supposed debate against these pro-independence pro-SNP devoutees?
They resort to deceit or, if you're really lucky, just distraction.
Whatever it takes to get their divisive POV heard.

The more we apply logic and fact the more they jeer, lie and deceive.
Perhaps because - deep down - they know they have no argument of substance.

As has been said before, do not judge all Scots as these devoutees would have you believe.
Don't even think they are a majority.
As others on here have either said or hinted-at, the views described in here by the pro-independence pro-SNP devoutees are in fact a minority in Scotland.
A shrinking minority at that.

It has been said before that part of their plan is to make England and the English so fed-up of the continual whinging and interference that they excommunicate Scotland from the UK.
THIS plan too will fail.

Great post, hits the nail firmly on the head.

In response to the reams of waffle dressed up as "debate", the endless opinion presented as fact, the distraction, the propaganda and the outright disregard for the opinion and logic of others, TLU's post should be copied and pasted into the thread on a regular basis!

TrickyTree83

sss555s wrote: »

I think trade both ways would be similar even if there was a few spit their dummy out.

So all those businesses, particularly in financial services in Scotland, who said they would move south in 2014 because rUK is their largest market wouldn't move south. Only a few would 'spit their dummy out'?

If there's a trade barrier between the UK and the EU, Scotland will lose jobs, tax revenue and spending capability by becoming independent and joining the EU.

It's simple maths - again.

11% is not and never will be more important than 64%, no matter how many times the SNP or pro-independence supporters say otherwise. It's just one of those things where mathematics circumvents all conceivable bu**sh*t, whether you like it or not.

kabayiri

Shakethedisease wrote: »

You're in fantasy hypothetical 'whooo the fear' politics land.
...

I bet it was hypothetical to the inhabitants of Ireland if you go back far enough.

Most of what we discuss is conjecture, so on that basis can you answer the question, or like a typical politician will you swerve it again?