The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

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I used to enjoy Scottish whisky and in principle still do, but medication forces me to limit such things now. However, my whisky of choice for a long time now is Canadian. It is very smooth indeed.

http://www.blackvelvetwhisky.com/

Edit: I fancy free trade with Canada.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Sure there are SOME who advocate independence no matter what.
NOT, I strongly suspect, as many as Hamish and others would have you believe..

I don't advocate independence no matter what.

Only as a last resort in the event the UK leaves the Single Market.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

I would suspect you are alone, because you're advocating a ride on the Greek austerity train. No one is going to buy that ticket unless they're completely misinformed.
.

Well the UK just voted to ride the Greek Austerity Train if we end up with the hard Brexit so many in government, and indeed on the Brexit campaign pre referendum, advocate.

So it seems misinformation is widespread.

CLAPTON

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Well the UK just voted to ride the Greek Austerity Train if we end up with the hard Brexit so many in government, and indeed on the Brexit campaign pre referendum, advocate.

So it seems misinformation is widespread.

Greek austerity is the experience of a country that has been firmly in the EU since 1981.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

CLAPTON wrote: »

Greek austerity is the experience of a country that has been firmly in the EU since 1981.

Yet is still only ever the end result of the deficit between revenues and expenditure of the Greek State.

In the event of a hard Brexit the UK will experience a similar deficit between revenue and expenditure. And similar levels of austerity.

TrickyTree83

elantan wrote: »

Still not telling me that everyone that voted remain wants indy ... now your trying to change the subject ...

What Nicola wants and expects people to believe doesn't explain that everyone that voted to remain wants indy ...

Ah is that so?

So why does she presume to think that the Scottish people want a referendum on independence based on the vote to remain?

The SNP shouldn't be sticking things in their manifesto that implies it should. Then you might get a more honest reflection of who in Scotland actually wants to remain in the EU. Sadly they poisoned that chalice, so we'll never know.

CLAPTON

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Yet is still only ever the end result of the deficit between revenues and expenditure of the Greek State.

In the event of a hard Brexit the UK will experience a similar deficit between revenue and expenditure. And similar levels of austerity.

Greek austerity is a result of being in the EU: an inbalance between government income and spending doesn't mean that businesses can't create wealth.
Greek austerity is because they don't produce enough goods and services.

TrickyTree83

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Yet is still only ever the end result of the deficit between revenues and expenditure of the Greek State.

In the event of a hard Brexit the UK will experience a similar deficit between revenue and expenditure. And similar levels of austerity.

You assume.

The details of negotiations are not known.

But IFS and GERS figures are known, they must be within a degree of acceptable accuracy or the Scottish government wouldn't have signed GERS off, and both point to Greek style deficits for an independent Scotland in or out of the EU. At least the UK would have the ability to attempt to offset the loss of single market trade by striking deals elsewhere. No such sovereignty for Greece or Scotland in the EU. The UK also has fiscal institutions capable of altering the course of the economy. Yours may well end up being the ECB, like that'll turn out well.

Independent Scotland, as has been said many times (including by yourself) will be an economic basket case in the medium term. Better to stick with the rest of us and ride it out and make a success of what's to come. Either that or forget the welfare and social programme spending you've got now.

Your kids will pay for tuition.

Your citizens will pay for prescriptions.

Your taxes will rise, or further spending will be cut.

Your pensions will be in doubt, if they even exist at all, and retirement ages could well increase to levels higher than that of the UK.

All of this hurt, all of this potential poverty and suffering for many hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of Scots for what?

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

You assume.

The details of negotiations are not known.

There is little to negotiate and even less to assume.

The UK can either stay within the single market as part of the EEA/EFTA or it can leave and have a chaotic hard Brexit and then maybe a trade deal in 7-10 years.

The Treasury, IFS, and others have already calculated the costs of a hard Brexit.

Which would give us a deficit worse than Greece.

Scotland therefore has little to lose by leaving if hard Brexit is the outcome.

TrickyTree83

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

There is little to negotiate and even less to assume.

The UK can either stay within the single market as part of the EEA/EFTA or it can leave and have a chaotic hard Brexit and then maybe a trade deal in 7-10 years.

The Treasury, IFS, and others have already calculated the costs of a hard Brexit.

Which would give us a deficit worse than Greece.

Scotland therefore has little to lose by leaving if hard Brexit is the outcome.

Despite everyone saying negotiations will take place. You believe they won't and that we'll just spend 2 years twiddling thumbs around a desk in Brussels?