The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Enterprise_1701C

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Yes...

We can choose to stay in the single market and accept it's rules or leave and try to negotiate something else in due course.

But there will be no negotiation of a 'Europe a la carte'.

That option is not on the menu.

Do you never ask for something that is not on the menu? I know I frequently do, and I also know we have a lot of people lining up to arrange trade deals with us. The EU is not the be all and end all.

And for your information I voted in. I have now watched the reaction of people like Tusk, and noticed the desire for ever closer integration, and realise the real aim is to get all the countries in the EU into the Euro to bankrupt them, then force them to cede all power the president of the EU. In a few years, if the EU still exists, the countries within it will not.

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Sturgeon stands at the helm of Scotland. A captain ready to take the tiller of independence and sail to a future free of little Englander meddling.

Scotland will float like a proud schooner to take her place among the family of European nations.

Meanwhile England's leaky barge will continue to circle the plug hole pretending its 1948.

Haven't Scotland noticed the large obstacle in front of them, there is a high risk that the schooner will crash and slowly sink. The leaky barge can stay afloat while we fix the leak caused by the EU and float proudly into the 21st century (unlike the rest of the EU).

kabayiri

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

...
And for your information I voted in. I have now watched the reaction of people like Tusk, and noticed the desire for ever closer integration, and realise the real aim is to get all the countries in the EU into the Euro to bankrupt them, then force them to cede all power the president of the EU. In a few years, if the EU still exists, the countries within it will not.
...

This is the crucial point.

We were never voting to remain in something which represented a status quo.

I'd suggest the EU project (experiment) is facing some of the biggest challenges in it's history.

It has to do something, and the view from the centre is very clear. They see the opportunity for closer integration.

We would have been left out on the margins regardless of our vote.

Speaking of Scotland, why should this be a priority issue for the EU? It would be much easier for them to consider it an internal matter for the UK.

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

This is the crucial point.

We were never voting to remain in something which represented a status quo.

I'd suggest the EU project (experiment) is facing some of the biggest challenges in it's history.

It has to do something, and the view from the centre is very clear. They see the opportunity for closer integration.

We would have been left out on the margins regardless of our vote.

Maybe, but once again it's a case of politics against the economic impact of leaving.

Speaking of Scotland, why should this be a priority issue for the EU? It would be much easier for them to consider it an internal matter for the UK.

They will, probably until Article 50 is invoked. Then Scotland in or out of the EU obviously becomes an EU matter and has to be addressed.

Shakethedisease

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

Haven't Scotland noticed the large obstacle in front of them, there is a high risk that the schooner will crash and slowly sink. The leaky barge can stay afloat while we fix the leak caused by the EU and float proudly into the 21st century (unlike the rest of the EU).

I prefer the parachute anology.

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

They will, probably until Article 50 is invoked. Then Scotland in or out of the EU obviously becomes an EU matter and has to be addressed.

Not an issue for the other 27 member states that constitute the EU. As it's the UK that is leaving. What Scotland may or may not do is pure speculation. When Scotland has decided it's fate then there's a platform on which to base discussions.

Shakethedisease

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Not an issue for the other 27 member states that constitute the EU. As it's the UK that is leaving. What Scotland may or may not do is pure speculation. When Scotland has decided it's fate then there's a platform on which to base discussions.

Theresa May is first for talks tomorrow. Much will depend on that. What's the chances do you think of Sturgeon getting what she asks for ?

The publication last week of the referendum bill has concentrated minds in Scotland. The avowedly Unionist Daily Record ran an ambiguous front page with a referendum ballot paper and the claim that Theresa May was “pushing us that way”, suggesting that Scotland might be moving towards independence.

The Scottish Greens are firmly behind the idea of holding a referendum if Scotland is out of the single market. The deputy leader of the Scottish Labour Party, Alex Rowley, endorsed the case for Holyrood to have powers over trade and immigration. He also called for a new constitutional convention to press for a “special deal” for Scotland. Scotland may not be ready for an early referendum, but it is firmly behind the First Minister’s demands.

The First Minister is going in with a very tough agenda. She wants controls on immigration to be devolved to Scotland, the right to negotiate separate trade deals with Brussels and the right to remain, effectively, in the single market. On the face of it these demands have no chance of being accepted, given the UK Government's Brexit dogmatism.

But it may not be as simple as that. Last week, the Financial Times argued that it was possible for Scotland to remain in the European Free Trade Area (EFTA) along with Norway and Iceland. Being part of EFTA (or the parallel European Economic Area) does not require membership of the EU customs union. A free trade area is different from a customs union in that the latter requires that common tariffs are applied by all member states. What this means, argued the FT, is that there need not be a so-called “hard border” between Scotland and England.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14818228.Iain_Macwhirter__Time_to_set_tribalism_aside_and_put_Scotland_first/

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Theresa May is first for talks tomorrow. Much will depend on that. What's the chances do you think of Sturgeon getting what she asks for ?

About the same as Sturgeon asking for something sensible.

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Theresa May is first for talks tomorrow. Much will depend on that. What's the chances do you think of Sturgeon getting what she asks for ?

Depends if it's in the wider interests of the UK as a whole. Mrs May has no need to accede to demands. After all NS doesn't speak for the majority of Scotland at the current time.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Theresa May is first for talks tomorrow. Much will depend on that. What's the chances do you think of Sturgeon getting what she asks for ?

clearly Nicola doesn't want any concessions, she will merely be using the situation to gain more support in Scotland for Iscotland.

any actual concessions with be a disaster for nicola so I'm sure any result with be presented accordingly.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

About the same as Sturgeon asking for something sensible.

The FT thinks it's a sensible approach. It's a 'soft' Brexit for Scotland which is would dampen down considerably calls for a second referendum. And we still don't know what kind of Brexit the UK as a whole are going to have yet.

Why would Theresa May want to rule it out altogether as a possibility ? We've also gone this week ( in the Scottish media at least ) from the Tories blocking another referendum, to in fact not blocking it but just delaying it until after Brexit. I read this comment the other day, and he's right. Westminster has already agreed to the Scots right to self determination by agreeing to the first referendum.

There are also the international conventions on self determination.
Westminster cannot acknowledge the right of Scottish self determination in 2014 and reject it in 2018.

Either we have that right or we don't.

Anyway, let's see what tomorrow brings.