The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

elantan

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Ah is that so?

So why does she presume to think that the Scottish people want a referendum on independence based on the vote to remain?

The SNP shouldn't be sticking things in their manifesto that implies it should. Then you might get a more honest reflection of who in Scotland actually wants to remain in the EU. Sadly they poisoned that chalice, so we'll never know.

Now your trying to change the question again ... tsktsk... what proof do you have that everyone that voted remain wants indy ? And to bring Nicola in to it seeing as you obviously like and admire her ... when and where did she say that everyone that voted remain wants indy ?

I think you appear to be confusing independence from WM with independence from the EU

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Despite everyone saying negotiations will take place.

Theresa May changed her language yesterday to state she wants Britain to stay "within the single market" rather than having "access to" it.

The EU offers a "set menu" - there is no "a la carte" option available.

It seems the PM is now realising this.

We can either stay in the single market or leave it.

TrickyTree83

elantan wrote: »

Now your trying to change the question again ... tsktsk... what proof do you have that everyone that voted remain wants indy ? And to bring Nicola in to it seeing as you obviously like and admire her ... when and where did she say that everyone that voted remain wants indy ?

I think you appear to be confusing independence from WM with independence from the EU

No, I just led you into a cul-de-sac of admitting your own conflicted opinion, supporting the SNP and independence whilst at the same time recognising that a vote for the UK to remain in the EU should have no bearing on Scottish independence.

Yet we find ourselves with a Scottish government draft bill on an independence referendum, two years after the previous one referendum as a direct result of the UK EU referendum result.

TrickyTree83

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Theresa May changed her language yesterday to state she wants Britain to stay "within the single market" rather than having "access to" it.

The EU offers a "set menu" - there is no "a la carte" option available.

It seems the PM is now realising this.

We can either stay in the single market or leave it.

She also said negotiations will be full of 'give and take'.

So which is it? Do we take what Teresa May says as evidence of negotiation, to which you do not know the outcome, or do we take your word for it that there will be no negotiation?

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

She also said negotiations will be full of 'give and take'.

Yes...

We can choose to stay in the single market and accept it's rules or leave and try to negotiate something else in due course.

But there will be no negotiation of a 'Europe a la carte'.

That option is not on the menu.

elantan

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

No, I just led you into a cul-de-sac of admitting your own conflicted opinion, supporting the SNP and independence whilst at the same time recognising that a vote for the UK to remain in the EU should have no bearing on Scottish independence.

Yet we find ourselves with a Scottish government draft bill on an independence referendum, two years after the previous one referendum as a direct result of the UK EU referendum result.

Ermmm I support snp I also support green I also occasionally support lib dems labour and even rarely tory ...incidentally my opinion isn't even slightly conflicted, you seem to read too much into things

I do think though maybe you need to understand what a manifesto is ... people vote for the party of their choice partly based on the parties manifesto, SNP have almost always put in an independence vote, this time however it changed that, it stated if a fundamental change such as the UK voting out of the EU whilst Scotland votes to remain then another independence ref may be required

Why do u not respect that ?

And still once again and for the last time I ask ( cause your boring me now with not answering it ) .. where is your proof that all that voted remain want indy ?

TrickyTree83

elantan wrote: »

Ermmm I support snp I also support green I also occasionally support lib dems labour and even rarely tory ...incidentally my opinion isn't even slightly conflicted, you seem to read too much into things

I do think though maybe you need to understand what a manifesto is ... people vote for the party of their choice partly based on the parties manifesto, SNP have almost always put in an independence vote, this time however it changed that, it stated if a fundamental change such as the UK voting out of the EU whilst Scotland votes to remain then another independence ref may be required

Why do u not respect that ?

And still once again and for the last time I ask ( cause your boring me now with not answering it ) .. where is your proof that all that voted remain want indy ?

Why are you like a dog with a bone on a point I've already said I don't agree with, that the remain vote does not indicate all remain voters want independence. Yet the SNP and supporters appear to think that is the case even if you declare you do not believe that to be the case, which puts you in a conflicted position of not only supporting the SNP but disagreeing with their assertion that voting with independence in mind you should vote to remain.

http://www.snp.org/if_you_re_voting_with_independence_in_mind_this_thursday_vote_remain

I was taking the michael out of the ridiculous positions the independence supporters take on this thread, so much so it's descended into a farce.

TrickyTree83

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Yes...

We can choose to stay in the single market and accept it's rules or leave and try to negotiate something else in due course.

But there will be no negotiation of a 'Europe a la carte'.

That option is not on the menu.

haha, how can you say that?

Are you the negotiating representative for the EU? Do you have insider knowledge? Can you tell the future?

If the answer to all of these is No, then what I'm saying is correct.

zagubov

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

You assume.

The details of negotiations are not known.

But IFS and GERS figures are known, they must be within a degree of acceptable accuracy or the Scottish government wouldn't have signed GERS off, and both point to Greek style deficits for an independent Scotland in or out of the EU. At least the UK would have the ability to attempt to offset the loss of single market trade by striking deals elsewhere. No such sovereignty for Greece or Scotland in the EU. The UK also has fiscal institutions capable of altering the course of the economy. Yours may well end up being the ECB, like that'll turn out well.

Independent Scotland, as has been said many times (including by yourself) will be an economic basket case in the medium term. Better to stick with the rest of us and ride it out and make a success of what's to come. Either that or forget the welfare and social programme spending you've got now.

Your kids will pay for tuition.

Your citizens will pay for prescriptions.

Your taxes will rise, or further spending will be cut.

Your pensions will be in doubt, if they even exist at all, and retirement ages could well increase to levels higher than that of the UK.

All of this hurt, all of this potential poverty and suffering for many hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of Scots for what?

So that the rUK doesn't drag into ever deeper do-do I expect.

If a friend /relative had the extremely bad habit of chewing plutonium, I doubt that stopping chewing it would reverse any existing damage it would have already done, but wouldn't you still recommend they stop to prevent it getting worse?

ruggedtoast

Sturgeon stands at the helm of Scotland. A captain ready to take the tiller of independence and sail to a future free of little Englander meddling.

Scotland will float like a proud schooner to take her place among the family of European nations.

Meanwhile England's leaky barge will continue to circle the plug hole pretending its 1948.