The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

skintmacflint

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I think Labour run that particular council. Just as well they'll be out in May then.
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Yes they do however, Sturgeon has assured this area several times at meetings ( when she turns up that is) over the past few years she would get it sorted. It is a multi factor problem, comprising overcrowding partly caused by EU migration to the area, ie a couple move into a flat, suitable for a couple , then their extended family also move in. Overcrowding in an instant. Not to mention property neglect by some landlords.

If you watch any of the Save Govanhill videos you will see that Sturgeon's 'solutions' have failed to solve the problem, and she couldn't even keep her office rat free, and has moved out leaving no forwarding address at that time. Having seen the videos I can also feel a sympathy for council workers having to repeatedly turn up to clean up that mess.

If the most powerful woman in Scotland can't solve a local problem in her own constituency in years, or get a few council members to do her bidding , what chance does she have of negotiating at the top table in the EU

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Scottish interests might be damaged irreparably by a Brexit at all. The below is an argument from your side incidentally, against a future second referendum. But again, he keeps coming back to the advisory v's legally binding debate rather than the right to hold a referendum. After 2014, there is also legal precedent being set of the first referendum being held.

http://www.scottishconstitutionalfutures.org/OpinionandAnalysis/ViewBlogPost/tabid/1767/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/3260/Nick-Barber-After-the-Vote--Regulating-Future-Independence-Referendums.aspx

Like I say, wonderful PR for the EU at a time they desperately need a good news story.

No, I expect it will be tough going even to get another referendum. But the obstacles will be political rather than legal which conversely, will only serve to build independence support further.

It was unclear what you mean by
"Scottish interests might be damaged irreparably by a Brexit at all"

Re giving another Referendum approval by the UK Government, such is needed unless we are talking about a referendum on devolved matters as I understand it. But whether a referendum on independence should be permitted that depends on whether there is a clear wish in Scotland to have one. So denial of permission would not be a denial aimed at Scotland, but a denial to the SNP for not having made a case for holding it. A political judgement certainly, but a judgement nonetheless.

From the article you linked:

In summary, my proposal is that following a ‘no’ vote the Scotland Act be amended to empower the Scottish Parliament to hold a binding referendum on independence, but only if 30 years have elapsed since the last referendum or if two-thirds of all MSPs vote for such a referendum

So - clarity that there is a legal inhibit in place, and at least a proposal for avoiding a highly subversive decision for Scotland.

By the way, wink or not, I don't really think that PR plays a part in EU decisions.

kabayiri

skintmacflint wrote: »

...
But you SNP voters obviously think Sturgeon and her mentor are so damned smart and powerful with their army of 1 .6 million supporters that they are going to be able to negotiate their own terms while asking for a large handout at the same time.
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Eire has become a net contributor for the first time I see.

The EU is going to need more resources, that much seems clear. It's just a question as to which member states contribute most.

Why would Scotland automatically be a net benefactor?

There is a 300bn Euro social cohesion fund Scotland could try and access more, but the GDP per capita figures would suggest that Poland and other Visegrad countries will remain the biggest benefactors.

Eire is perhaps a good example of a country with similar population size surviving in the EU. The cost of living in Eire is of course more expensive.

kabayiri

skintmacflint wrote: »

If we're going to be honest the EU referendum results in Scotland were skewed. It could possibly be higher for Remain or higher for Leave within that 62% turnout.

The EU referendum question in Scotland wasn't simply about the EU for many voters, it was what was the best way to vote to either increase or decrease a decision which could trigger all the nonsense we're getting now about a 2nd Indy referendum.
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The overriding impression given by senior SNP politicians in the run up to the EU referendum was one of a different outlook in Scotland.

We were told that the EU ethos was much stronger up there.

Well, the clearest evidence of that would be a massive turnout. But this was just not the case.

As SNP leader, you would push for a big turnout wouldn't you? Just look how much media coverage Gibraltar gained because of the overwhelming Remain support. Turnout figures were huge there.

I suspect the strong EU support is coming from the SNP fanbase, which suggests a political motivation, not long term love for the EU vision.

TrickyTree83

kabayiri wrote: »

I suspect the strong EU support is coming from the SNP fanbase, which suggests a political motivation, not long term love for the EU vision.

I've been over this point many times. You only get flat denial. I've posted links to journalism that exposes it and I also posted a link to this.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&ved=0ahUKEwj94qmY69TPAhXGrxoKHTCVBR0QFghEMAY&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snp.org%2Fif_you_re_voting_with_independence_in_mind_this_thursday_vote_remain&usg=AFQjCNER8jkiMOQ8KtUzIRpLSwUxAsg-Rg&sig2=vmbjMqtFFYPpHNU-1NxI3w&bvm=bv.135475266,d.d2s&cad=rja

It's a thinly veiled aim, there's enough to convince me that plenty of SNP supporters voted remain simply to have another crack at independence, they are devout.

Edit: Sorry about the link, using it directly on the SNP website takes you to 'page not found', whereas Google are still happily displaying it.

beecher2

So I’ll be voting Remain for a variety of very good reasons - such as access to a single market of more than half a billion people, free travel across Europe for all of us and for the hugely important workers’ rights and social protections that being part of Europe guarantees.

But if you are basing your decision on what it means for independence, let me be very clear – the only sensible and logical vote is one for Scotland to remain in Europe.

Link works fine for me
http://www.snp.org/if_you_re_voting_with_independence_in_mind_this_thursday_vote_remain
Sounds fair enough to me - I voted primarily to try to protect workers' rights personally.

I think turnout was low for many reasons, bit similar to the Scottish elections really - feeling that it was a foregone conclusion, lack of enthusiasm after a truly dire campaign which really failed to point out the positives of Europe, maybe ballot fatigue too,

TrickyTree83

beecher2 wrote: »

Link works fine for me
http://www.snp.org/if_you_re_voting_with_independence_in_mind_this_thursday_vote_remain
Sounds fair enough to me - I voted primarily to try to protect workers' rights personally.

I think turnout was low for many reasons, bit similar to the Scottish elections really - feeling that it was a foregone conclusion, lack of enthusiasm after a truly dire campaign which really failed to point out the positives of Europe, maybe ballot fatigue too,

When I tested it, it was taking me to an internal 'page not found' not a 404, something they manage internally.

You voted to protect workers rights, which are higher/better in the UK because of legislation in Westminster than the EU minimum?

Thrugelmir

kabayiri wrote: »

Eire has become a net contributor for the first time I see.

The EU is going to need more resources, that much seems clear. It's just a question as to which member states contribute most.

Why would Scotland automatically be a net benefactor?

There is a 300bn Euro social cohesion fund Scotland could try and access more, but the GDP per capita figures would suggest that Poland and other Visegrad countries will remain the biggest benefactors.

Eire is perhaps a good example of a country with similar population size surviving in the EU. The cost of living in Eire is of course more expensive.

Do you think for one moment that the SNP will bring in the level of painful austerity that was introduced in Eire after the GFC. Goes against every policy , every philosophy, every word spoken that the SNP stands for. Would be a U turn bigger than any seen in UK politics. Eire stands for everything that Merkel believes in. The model on which countries should address their own economic woes.

Enterprise_1701C

Why did they not open the referendum to the whole of the UK? They could have been on their way to being independent by now. It would certainly affect us as much as our Sunday trading laws affect them.

Scotland have voted in so many things in parliament that were not relevant to them, and were in uproar when we decided that they could not vote on English only bills. They even voted down an attempt to liberalise the Sunday trading laws because it *might* affect rates of pay in Scotland. So they decided to stop us having the same chances to shop on a Sunday that they do. Hypocritical to say the least. So maybe England is more important to Scotland than they let on. Maybe we should insist on being able to vote on Scottish bills - the fact that they allow shops to open longer on Sundays should have been prevented as it creates a market for premium pay for workers that could have a knock on effect to the UK market with people wanting higher pay for working on Sundays, thereby preventing us lengthening opening hours on a Sunday.

I have to admit I think Fish Face would have the shock of her life if Scotland gained independence. They could no longer mess around with our affairs, they would not get money from us, they would have to finance everything themselves.

Oh, I forgot, they want to join the EU. So they do not want independence.

beecher2

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

When I tested it, it was taking me to an internal 'page not found' not a 404, something they manage internally.

You voted to protect workers rights, which are higher/better in the UK because of legislation in Westminster than the EU minimum?

I don't trust the tories with workers' rights at all. This is my personal opinion which is going to be different from your own and so I hope you will accept that and not take the thread down another road. There aren't always 'facts' in a political debate, and none of us know what will happen in the future, but that was my judgement at the time.