The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

TrickyTree83

beecher2 wrote: »

You can 'what if' about any scenario to fit any agenda. This is heading down another dead end and I really do wish you'd accept that just because someone sees something differently to you, doesn't mean they're wrong.

That's the point though, citing workers rights as a reason to remain in the EU is just as wrong as any other 'what if' scenario put forward.

They're no more or less protected by the EU than they are by the Conservatives, Labour or the SNP.

But one thing that is true is that outside of the EU you would have the ability to enact change through our/your parliamentary democracy.

If enough people agree with your point of view you can elect a party that will restore any eroded rights regardless of EU legislation, if you're inside the EU the buck stops there and you've very little say over what happens there now as the UK, Scotland would have even less of a voice.

So if the EU decided that all workers need to be given 90 days holiday a year, 5 years sick and maternity on full pay, it ruins your economy. Tough. Outside of the EU, elect a party that corrects these wrongs since they have the power to repeal their own legislation.

Thrugelmir

beecher2 wrote: »

People let you down, very aware of that and I am wary of seeing the SNP as the heroes of Scotland. Power corrupts and all that, unfortunately.

The EU has done little to protect the rights of young people to get a job. As in the the rust belt of the USA. Unskilled labour and semi skilled labour is available globally. The largest container ships now transport 13,000 at a time. China is funding the new Panama canal. Which will speed up transportation times. Apple products will simply arrive even quicker. From the sweat hole called Foxconn. Don't see any UK customers caring much about workers rights in this case. Nothing to do with Tories. It's globalisation that's the issue.

elantan

Shake, leanness, zag, beecher you seen the latest SNP ad?

It's a guid yin

elantan

Oh my if the news that's filtering through my time line regarding Brexit Unilever and Tesco are true ... then that's a lot to thank the Brexit voters for ... NOT

CLAPTON

elantan wrote: »

Oh my if the news that's filtering through my time line regarding Brexit Unilever and Tesco are true ... then that's a lot to thank the Brexit voters for ... NOT

learn the lesson well
if one depends upon the false wealth that living on borrowing money and selling assets become an addiction, eventually things go wrong.
The UK (handsomely supported by scotland) has been running a trade balanced deficit for some years
our net foreign assets have been declining
our net dividend flow has been declining for years

so when you get iscotland, don't live on borrowed money but balance public spending from day one.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

It was unclear what you mean by
"Scottish interests might be damaged irreparably by a Brexit at all"

Re giving another Referendum approval by the UK Government, such is needed unless we are talking about a referendum on devolved matters as I understand it. But whether a referendum on independence should be permitted that depends on whether there is a clear wish in Scotland to have one. So denial of permission would not be a denial aimed at Scotland, but a denial to the SNP for not having made a case for holding it. A political judgement certainly, but a judgement nonetheless.

From the article you linked:


So - clarity that there is a legal inhibit in place, and at least a proposal for avoiding a highly subversive decision for Scotland.

By the way, wink or not, I don't really think that PR plays a part in EU decisions.

They didn't implement his recommendations String. QED 'Scotland can hold an advisory referendum any time they like'. I replied to a post you made that Westminster would insist otherwise. So glad we've cleared that up.

Shakethedisease

beecher2 wrote: »

I don't trust the tories with workers' rights at all. This is my personal opinion which is going to be different from your own and so I hope you will accept that and not take the thread down another road. There aren't always 'facts' in a political debate, and none of us know what will happen in the future, but that was my judgement at the time.

It was mine too. I wanted to remain in the EU, but the factors that really swung it for me were workers rights and human rights being taken over by the Tory party. I do not trust them with those sorts of things given past policies and history. I suspect it swung lots of cross party voters in the EU referendum to make the same choice.

There was an article in the National/Common Space talking to voters in Scotland who had previously voted Yes in the Scottish ref, and Leave in the EU ref. Almost all of them true left wingers who displayed high idealism at the time, now horrified by the turn things have taken re immigration.

So no, you're not alone in the way you personally voted. The combination of leaving the EU AND the Conservative party in charge of human rights and workers rights in the UK and dictating the laws there. No Thanks. That particular combination has never been good in the UK.

Shakethedisease

Whoops, when the headline spin doesn't match the article. Must be an SNP conference soon.

New poll suggests hard Brexit not a game changer for SNP

Spin, spin, spin, waffle waffle, something something, figures flung out at random, something, something spin... until the bottom third of the article.

Once BMG factored in the response to the follow-up Brexit question, 43 per cent backed a second referendum, 42 per cent were against, and15 per cent were undecided, better for the SNP but not a solid base on which to go to the country, despite the First Minister ramping up the Brexit threat.

Conference delegates vote tomorrow on whether to link a referendum automatically to Brexit.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14798246.New_poll_suggests_hard_Brexit_not_a_game_changer_for_SNP/

Really need to cancel my sub.

elantan

Are you going Shake?

TrickyTree83

Oooof.

http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/scottish_deficit_is_twice_that_of_the_uk_and_higher_than_greece

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/13/nicola-sturgeon-faces-momentum-style-rebellion/