The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

But lets face it, on in the currency issue there's never going to be an ideal short term solution. Anything put forward will be much criticised as per 2014.

surely after 30 years of debate the SNP must have a committed answer to the iscotland currency issue : just look at the huge progress that the UK government is making on brexit in only a few months in a far more complex situation.
could be nicola doesn't want to tell the people of scotland.

Shakethedisease

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Let's be honest there's no central bank in Scotland. When RBS gets hit by the US regulators for their part in mis-selling of mortgages. There'll be little left of the core bank. Given that the other operating entities are being ring fenced and partitioned off. These ( such as NatWest) will remain under the ownership of the UK taxpayer.

Is a nettle that's got to be grasped one way or the other and soon. As I said, nothing will be a 100% ideal short term solution. I don't think there is one where currency is concerned. They all present big challenges.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Is a nettle that's got to be grasped one way or the other and soon. As I said, nothing will be a 100% ideal short term solution. I don't think there is one where currency is concerned. They all present big challenges.

so 30 years of thinking and the SNP don't have a clear well defined public plan for what currency they will use.

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

You can't insist though. That's the point. Another referendum will be at Holyrood's behest, not Westminsters. The last time this 'blocking a referendum' was mooted ( and I was here posting at the time back in 2011/2012 ).. Salmond simply kept bursting out laughing saying that any referendum would be leglislated for in Scotland and it was Scotland's voters that would make any decision, end of story. Cameron blinked first.

Logically and from what has been said since the Brexit vote, any Scottish ref must take place before the UK leaves the EU. The EU must know what Sturgeon's plans are, she's been over holding talks often enough.

Talks could take years yes. But best to take place before the UK negotiates Scotland's EU membership and exports away on Scotland's behalf. Better also from a Scottish perspective to be removed from Article 50 references before anything gets too far down the line. No one knows what's going to happen in the next few years though.

On the contrary. What a PR coup for the EU ! Here is a country that voted to stay in the UK just two years ago, sacrificing all that in order to stay within the EU. The powers that be in the EU should be dancing with joy at the very thought of such wonderful publicity for the project. Those fishing grounds being so useful to Spain and Portugal too.

As I've pointed out before there has been much talk in various think tanks and evidence given to the Holyrood committees that Scotland may end up in a sort of legal holding pen ( within the EU ) until talks with rUK are completed. I think it went along the lines of 'to avoid some kind of absurd in and out scenario' for Scotland.

No it's 62% of Scots voters in the EU referendum, from all parties and regions in Scotland.

The last once-in-a-lifetime Referendum was a unique event and a number of things are different. You cannot ignore the constitution with Impunity.

May is not Cameron; at this moment I'm glad he is not PM; he is too fluffy

The UK is not likely to be so complacent this time.

The UK's national interests would be damaged by a new referendum during the Brexit negotiations.

I've explained most of what I think before, save some measures which I prefer not to divulge, but the SNP is making the classic mistake of being so much in love with its own rhetoric that it neglects to consider what the UK could do to protect its interests.

Re the day dreaming about the EU being willing to take a fledgling, disorganised and insolvent Scotland into its collective bosom, no doubt, unfortunately, thousands (those in the SNP who have been well and truly thistled) may believe your SNP propaganda, but I don't, not for one minute. A direct formal question to the EU should settle the matter - oh I forget - they said no already.

You seem to think that independence follows immediately after an illegitimate referendum: think again.

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

There is a lot of publically published discussion going on. Most notably from the Scottish Greens at the moment. The SNP are understandably playing cards close to chests.

But lets face it, on in the currency issue there's never going to be an ideal short term solution. Anything put forward will be much criticised as per 2014. You may find this paper interesting ( full report a link within this summary ). .

https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/8911/new-report-scottish-currency-options-post-Brexit

Interesting. There are short term choices and long term choices. Personally I think the only real choice would be a Scottish currency, but not one pegged to the pound or anything else.

kabayiri

Shakethedisease wrote: »

...
No it's 62% of Scots voters in the EU referendum, from all parties and regions in Scotland.

62% of the 2/3rds who could be bothered to turn out.

You can't count those not interested in an European referendum.

Conrad

What will Scottish voters make of any number of potential referendums to come on the continent? Stability?

elantan

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/which-eu-law-are-you-looking-forward-to-losing/


Looks like this guy really knew what he was voting for re Brexit

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

The last once-in-a-lifetime Referendum was a unique event and a number of things are different. You cannot ignore the constitution with Impunity.

May is not Cameron; at this moment I'm glad he is not PM; he is too fluffy

The UK is not likely to be so complacent this time.

The UK's national interests would be damaged by a new referendum during the Brexit negotiations.

Scottish interests might be damaged irreparably by a Brexit at all. The below is an argument from your side incidentally, against a future second referendum. But again, he keeps coming back to the advisory v's legally binding debate rather than the right to hold a referendum. After 2014, there is also legal precedent being set of the first referendum being held.

Sunstein’s prescription – a denial of the right to secession – is not open to the United Kingdom, which has already recognised the right of certain of its territories to leave the Union. The Northern Ireland Act 1998 contains a legal right for that territory to secede in some circumstances, and whilst Scotland and Wales lack such a legal right, it has been accepted, perhaps for quite sometime, that they are entitled to determine their own constitutional fate. After the SNP gained control of the Scottish Parliament it was a matter of when, not if, a vote on independence would be held.

Under the current devolution settlement the Scottish Parliament is able to hold an advisory referendum on independence at any time. Admittedly, this point is not beyond dispute: most notably, Adam Tomkins has argued against this view, contending that the Scottish Parliament lacks this power, but, for reasons I have set out on this blog,I think it unlikely he is correct on this point.

http://www.scottishconstitutionalfutures.org/OpinionandAnalysis/ViewBlogPost/tabid/1767/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/3260/Nick-Barber-After-the-Vote--Regulating-Future-Independence-Referendums.aspx

I've explained most of what I think before, save some measures which I prefer not to divulge, but the SNP is making the classic mistake of being so much in love with its own rhetoric that it neglects to consider what the UK could do to protect its interests.

Re the day dreaming about the EU being willing to take a fledgling, disorganised and insolvent Scotland into its collective bosom, no doubt, unfortunately, thousands (those in the SNP who have been well and truly thistled) may believe your SNP propaganda, but I don't, not for one minute. A direct formal question to the EU should settle the matter - oh I forget - they said no already.

Like I say, wonderful PR for the EU at a time they desperately need a good news story.

You seem to think that independence follows immediately after an illegitimate referendum: think again.

No, I expect it will be tough going even to get another referendum. But the obstacles will be political rather than legal which conversely, will only serve to build independence support further.

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

62% of the 2/3rds who could be bothered to turn out.

You can't count those not interested in an European referendum.

But support for the UK was only 55% on a higher turnout compared to 62% for the EU on a lower turnout. Terribly unclear and time to choose which it's to be.