The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I know very well the point you're making. Scottish Labour are trying to make it now. But no one is fooled because remaining in the UK AND the EU is more than likely no longer an option.

They'll have to leave wishful thinking behind and vote one way or the other in reality.

Have another look at that graphic Shakey




You are making some spin-driven and unsubstantiated claim that the 28% that preferred UK + EU are not likely to vote No when they realise that the UK is leaving the EU dumping their preference for the Union.

By that apology for logic one could argue equally that those 33% are not likely to vote Yes when they realise that Scotland is not going to stay in the EU, dumping their preference for independence.

That poll was conducted just a few days ago and reflect what people believe now, and as far as I'm aware there was no second choice.

So both those arguments are not substantiated. Your twaddle is no more valid than my parody of it.


As far as wishful thinking is concerned, you take the prize in that.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

elantan wrote: »

I've not mastered how to get photies up without getting myself tied in knots so sadly can't put any yeslings photies up ... wonderful thing is as you rightly point out they are generally older people ... last time round the older ones tended to vote no... maybe a few have changed their minds...

I reckon the Yeslings are quite a big group though ... but come on having to get up early Sunday morning to travel

In a way I wish I did do something yesterday, the Green thing ddint suit me but St Lukes church gathering would've .. CW and WFI stuff going on with a wee visit fae the big man, aye I think ah could've handled that

Not that I agree with the content of what you want to post, mind but I sent you a message.
Perhaps it will help you to post photos; I too have struggled.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

Have another look at that graphic Shakey




You are making some spin-driven and unsubstantiated claim that the 28% that preferred UK + EU are not likely to vote No when they realise that the UK is leaving the EU dumping their preference for the Union.

By that apology for logic one could argue equally that those 33% are not likely to vote Yes when they realise that Scotland is not going to stay in the EU, dumping their preference for independence.

That poll was conducted just a few days ago and reflect what people believe now, and as far as I'm aware there was no second choice.

So both those arguments are not substantiated. Your twaddle is no more valid than my parody of it.


As far as wishful thinking is concerned, you take the prize in that.

You're taking that portion of the poll in isolation though. 48 Yes / 52% No. Someone else has already done the sums and that 28% equates to about a million voters. In order to cross to 50% only a quarter of those million have to choose independence in the EU rather than out of the EU and in the UK. And that's using the last 45% as a baseline, not the 48% in yesterday's poll.

I was reading John Curtice's take on the poll and he references again and again (within the same poll) comparisons with how people voted in the EU referendum. EU citizens would not be included in those particular analytics, nor would 16/17 year olds. So they've been missed again within the context of any future independence ref.

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

You're taking that portion of the poll in isolation though. 48 Yes / 52% No. Someone else has already done the sums and that 28% equates to about a million voters. In order to cross to 50% only a quarter of those million have to choose independence in the EU rather than out of the EU and in the UK. And that's using the last 45% as a baseline, not the 48% in yesterday's poll.

I was reading John Curtice's take on the poll and he references again and again (within the same poll) comparisons with how people voted in the EU referendum. EU citizens would not be included in those particular analytics, nor would 16/17 year olds. So they've been missed again within the context of any future independence ref.

Yeah, Yeah, --- and doing a similar sum that 33% equates to over about a million voters and to see off Natland only some (invented) proportion of those needed to choose the Union over separation rather than put Scotland out of the EU and simultaneously out of the UK.

But no, don't fret, I don't expect you to believe the 33% remark, you're not as daft as you assumed others to be when you made the 28% remark.

I don't see why you bother with polls, selective or not as the choice may be, if you don't interpret them properly rather than inventing fanciful non results; practising, I suppose, for the next SNP Conpaign.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

Yeah, Yeah, --- and doing a similar sum that 33% equates to over about a million voters and to see off Natland only some (invented) proportion of those needed to choose the Union over separation rather than put Scotland out of the EU and simultaneously out of the UK.

But no, don't fret, I don't expect you to believe the 33% remark, you're not as daft as you assumed others to be when you made the 28% remark.

I don't see why you bother with polls, selective or not as the choice may be, if you don't interpret them properly rather than inventing fanciful non results; practising, I suppose, for the next SNP Conpaign.

It's just one poll string. Calm your pants, interpreting things by their very nature means people take different things from different polls.

The big picture is that overall things are looking pretty close and nothing has happened yet regarding Brexit. But I wouldn't pin your hopes on the EU being wot won it or not. It'll be the Tories looking like being re-elected in 2020 that'll play an equal if not bigger factor ( certainly in the West coast of Scotland ).

May hasn't exactly hit the ground running has she.

Conrad

Watching the Andrew Marr documentary on Scottish independence last night I kept going back to why the Scots would be motivated by Sturgeons £11bn loss argument (from leaving the EU), but unconcerned over an potential losses stemming from leaving the UK.

elantan

There's yer answer in yer q ... don't watch Marr ... simples

CLAPTON

elantan wrote: »

There's yer answer in yer q ... don't watch Marr ... simples

yes, all that is necessary is to vaguely know a little of 1,000 years of history, have a huge chip on the shoulder and a general dislike of the English.
job done

islandannie

If anyone still has any doubt about Sturgeon and her agenda,read the following link.
It would appear that she suffers from the dangerous mental disease of megalomania.

She has publicly stated that her desire for Independence transcends all other aspects of Scottish life,ie more important than Scottish health,education,poverty,decent housing,the dire economy,the aspirations of the next generation of children,the expectation of decent Scots to a trouble and debt free life,the pensions which we all rely on and so much more.

How much longer can sensible Scots tolerate this vile xenophobic nonsense?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/712499/Theresa-May-rips-Nicola-Sturgeon-claims-Scottish-independence-more-important-economy

Shakethedisease

islandannie wrote: »

If anyone still has any doubt about Sturgeon and her agenda,read the following link.
It would appear that she suffers from the dangerous mental disease of megalomania.

She has publicly stated that her desire for Independence transcends all other aspects of Scottish life,ie more important than Scottish health,education,poverty,decent housing,the dire economy,the aspirations of the next generation of children,the expectation of decent Scots to a trouble and debt free life,the pensions which we all rely on and so much more.

How much longer can sensible Scots tolerate this vile xenophobic nonsense?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/712499/Theresa-May-rips-Nicola-Sturgeon-claims-Scottish-independence-more-important-economy

Nah, this is what she meant.

As it stands, we are largely powerless to make strategic moves to transform key areas of national life – we have limited access to borrowing, can’t adjust corporation tax, set VAT or alter competition policy or industrial relations. We have no separate foreign or immigration policy, our defence needs are (not) met elsewhere, our energy likewise – even our broadcasting is not our own. But we do at last control traffic signs.

A country denied the ability to run its own economy is blamed for being bankrupt by the authority which exercises those macro economic powers over it. The British Treasury pulls our wings off and then laughs when we can’t fly.

Ouch

No other country I know of has taken its independence to be richer. You do it to be free to make your own decisions in your own best interests and, yes, to make your own mistakes...

..I’m taking Sturgeon’s remark as a sign that her argument is moving beyond the policy detail of independence to the real meat of the case. Scots have a right to run our own country and will never be at ease until we do. If you’re frightened by passing storms, then stay indoors and keep your head down. If you really do think your own people couldn’t run a whelk stall – unlike the statesmen who brought us Brexit – then vote No the next time too.

http://derekbateman.scot/2016/09/20/deference-or-dignity/

Salmond is saying the same about next ref. Choice. I doubt there will be just one White Paper next time.

“Scotland is a country of many, many tendencies and views and we have to set out the policy options. Perhaps we were too definitive, and confused the SNP with the national movement last time round,” he said. Salmond’s comments were mirrored by Scotland’s youngest MSP Ross Greer, who said that the movement should understand it’s internal divisions as a source of strength.
Speaking before Salmond at SIC, he said: “Our independence movement doesn't have one vision for independence, but many, that is our strength.

https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/9384/alex-salmond-yes-movement-may-have-confused-snp-and-broader-movement-2014