The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

ruggedtoast

Scotland has started her inexorable march toward independence.

This is really going to happen.

westernpromise

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Scotland has started her inexorable march toward independence.

This is really going to happen.

Tee hee:
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/09/01/davidson-now-more-popular-sturgeon-scotland/

Scots don't support a second independence referendum
YouGov's latest Scotland survey [finds] just 37% of Scots backing a second independence referendum and 50% opposed. Should they be successful in forcing another vote, the results would be almost identical to last time, with 54% of Scots voting against independence and 46% in favour.

Guess again Toastie!

TrickyTree83

westernpromise wrote: »

Tee hee:
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/09/01/davidson-now-more-popular-sturgeon-scotland/

Scots don't support a second independence referendum
YouGov's latest Scotland survey [finds] just 37% of Scots backing a second independence referendum and 50% opposed. Should they be successful in forcing another vote, the results would be almost identical to last time, with 54% of Scots voting against independence and 46% in favour.

Guess again Toastie!

Now that does surprise me, that the polls are on a downward trend.

Mind you once they start getting out there in these meetings and rallies to try to drum up support those polls will probably change.

I doubt at these meetings they'll be telling the people there about the economic challenges ahead if they were to vote for independence.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Now that does surprise me, that the polls are on a downward trend.

Mind you once they start getting out there in these meetings and rallies to try to drum up support those polls will probably change.

I doubt at these meetings they'll be telling the people there about the economic challenges ahead if they were to vote for independence.

Why would it surprise you?
You see, what Shakethedisease; elantan and others who want independence so much are forgetting is ................ the recent UK referendum.

Canny Scots realise that the lack of hard fact * doesn't make a decision easy.
Let's be honest, none of us would mind being just a little worse-off temporarily but by a huge amount?
Scots also realise that without supporting fact, much of what is said is pure blether - and should be taken only with a very large pinch of salt.
They also by now realise only too well that this seems to apply to both sides of an [STRIKE]argument[/STRIKE] debate.

SO - for any side to win the hearts and minds of Scots we will need facts and figures.
If not these, certainly assurances much more concrete than the bull pooh currently still being pedalled.

* Hard Fact:
Actual, provable facts and figures.
NOT promises, estimations/guesses or thoughts and ideas.
One such fact (sadly for Scotland) being the provable deficit figure of £14.8 billion.

ALSO -
Most realise that even if Scots were given the opportunity AND were to vote for independence, there is surely no realistic way that this could be achieved even by the time of the UK's exit from the EU, much less before it.
Which means any great "happening" regarding membership of the EU; EFTA or any other such could realistically not happen until afterwards.

CLAPTON

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Why would it surprise you?
You see, what Shakethedisease; elantan and others who want independence so much are forgetting is ................ the recent UK referendum.

Canny Scots realise that the lack of hard fact * doesn't make a decision easy.
Let's be honest, none of us would mind being just a little worse-off temporarily but by a huge amount?
Scots also realise that without supporting fact, much of what is said is pure blether - and should be taken only with a very large pinch of salt.
They also by now realise only too well that this seems to apply to both sides of an [STRIKE]argument[/STRIKE] debate.

SO - for any side to win the hearts and minds of Scots we will need facts and figures.
If not these, certainly assurances much more concrete than the bull pooh currently still being pedalled.

* Hard Fact:
Actual, provable facts and figures.
NOT promises, estimations/guesses or thoughts and ideas.
One such fact (sadly for Scotland) being the provable deficit figure of £14.8 billion.

ALSO -
Most realise that even if Scots were given the opportunity AND were to vote for independence, there is surely no realistic way that this could be achieved even by the time of the UK's exit from the EU, much less before it.
Which means any great "happening" regarding membership of the EU; EFTA or any other such could realistically not happen until afterwards.

there are NO hard economic facts.
the future is always speculative.

TrickyTree83

CLAPTON wrote: »

there are NO hard economic facts.
the future is always speculative.

The future is, but predication is based on historical evidence.

So you could reasonably predict that Scotland would have a deficit that would need to be addressed since there is historic evidence that a deficit persists in the Scottish economy, of a higher magnitude than that which exists within the UK economy as a whole.

But I don't want to get drawn into the deficit argument, I'm sticking to my 64% trade with rUK argument for now. I feel this on its own is enough of a reason to cease independence talk right now. Nicola would probably find the task of achieving independence easier if over the coming years they addressed this percentage somehow so any impact is mitigated, otherwise it could be catastrophic alongside any existing deficit no matter how small or large.

Thrugelmir

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Why would it surprise you?
You see, what Shakethedisease; elantan and others who want independence so much are forgetting is ................ the recent UK referendum.

Canny Scots realise that the lack of hard fact * doesn't make a decision easy.

In case you won't following events. The hard fact was immigration. The impact on peoples everyday lives. The forthcoming Doctors strike has it's roots in a rapidly expanding population. Takes years to train to become a Doctor. Only takes 90 minutes to cross the English Channel. Scotland of course is oblivious as is far removed from such pressures.

ruggedtoast

Fcking hell what is wrong with Scottish Labour?

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Thrugelmir wrote: »

In case you won't following events. The hard fact was immigration. The impact on peoples everyday lives. The forthcoming Doctors strike has it's roots in a rapidly expanding population. Takes years to train to become a Doctor. Only takes 90 minutes to cross the English Channel. Scotland of course is oblivious as is far removed from such pressures.

Indeed so, and we know the outcome of that fact don't we?
Which is why I included Scotland's hard fact regarding the deficit.

CLAPTON

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

The future is, but predication is based on historical evidence.

So you could reasonably predict that Scotland would have a deficit that would need to be addressed since there is historic evidence that a deficit persists in the Scottish economy, of a higher magnitude than that which exists within the UK economy as a whole.

But I don't want to get drawn into the deficit argument, I'm sticking to my 64% trade with rUK argument for now. I feel this on its own is enough of a reason to cease independence talk right now. Nicola would probably find the task of achieving independence easier if over the coming years they addressed this percentage somehow so any impact is mitigated, otherwise it could be catastrophic alongside any existing deficit no matter how small or large.

lets assume that the 64% of trade is with the rUK is a matter of fact.
how much of this trade will continue after iscotland is a matter of
opinion and not of fact
maybe it will increase?