The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

TrickyTree83

Conrad wrote: »

Hamish, I was all for Scotland going independent last time, but given the vote last time and the Ruth Davidson effect, I would like Scotland to stay. Just sayin

Is Hamish posting? I've not seen the posts. I guess I'm blacklisted.

ruggedtoast

Sturgeon's pushing the button on Independence

Great job Brexiteers.

Really great job.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/scottish-independence-nicola-sturgeon-to-launch-new-drive-for-second-referendum-a7221326.html

CLAPTON

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Sturgeon's pushing the button on Independence

Great job Brexiteers.

Really great job.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/scottish-independence-nicola-sturgeon-to-launch-new-drive-for-second-referendum-a7221326.html

the left has also hated democracy

TrickyTree83

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Sturgeon's pushing the button on Independence

Great job Brexiteers.

Really great job.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/scottish-independence-nicola-sturgeon-to-launch-new-drive-for-second-referendum-a7221326.html

Did she actually go on record with this:

The First Minister added that "tough issues" will not be ducked, including how an independent Scotland would address a £15 billion deficit.

If she did, can the nationalists on this thread finally acknowledge it too?

Then there's risking 64% of your trade AND dealing with the £15bn deficit per year.

wotsthat

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

The more I go around in circles on the economics of it the more I get the impression that if you're a Scottish nationalist the economics don't matter.

Told you this ages ago but you got there in the end.

TrickyTree83

wotsthat wrote: »

Told you this ages ago but you got there in the end.

If it's indeed true that to Scottish nationalists the economic arguments don't matter then there's no hope for their cause. It will undoubtedly lose time and time again.

Nicola Sturgeon is absolutely correct that the arguments today are not the same as in 2014. They're arguably worse! In 2014 at least Scotland could have joined the EU and enjoyed free trade with the rUK within the EU.

Now they want to leave the UK and join the EU and be subservient to the EU's trade deals, with which it looks like the UK isn't going to get single market membership. Consequently impacting 64% of their trade, affecting tax receipts, jobs, spending, general standard of living.

Tromking

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Now they want to leave the UK and join the EU and be subservient to the EU's trade deals, with which it looks like the UK isn't going to get single market membership. Consequently impacting 64% of their trade, affecting tax receipts, jobs, spending, general standard of living.

A lot of Scots nationalist sentiment is driven by views that have to be seen as being diametrically opposed to the majority English view on things. Its a kind of Celtic virtue signalling exercise.

TrickyTree83

Tromking wrote: »

A lot of Scots nationalist sentiment is driven by views that have to be seen as being diametrically opposed to the majority English view on things. Its a kind of Celtic virtue signalling exercise.

For the most part Snake, elantan, Leanne, and others haven't been outright anti-English (at least not that I've seen/felt), or any other peoples of the UK. They come across more anti-Westminster.

The same can't be said for the comments sections on places like Wings over Scotland though.

So with our tribe of Scottish nationalists on here appearing to be moderate, I don't get why the economics still don't matter. Why not wait until the economics can be sorted to such an extent that Scotland would indeed be better off or richer outside of the UK? It's certainly not the case at the moment, particularly with the caveat of having to join/remain in the EU as part of a new referendum on independence.

It would make more sense to wait until the argument can be conclusively won before asking the people again, instead of trying to rush it through 2 years after the first referendum on the issue in history on terms that are far from ideal to Scotland.

Tromking

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

So with our tribe of Scottish nationalists on here appearing to be moderate, I don't get why the economics still don't matter.

.....because to admit that the economics matter would be a tacit admission that the progressive social democracy that the SNP is trying to build in Scotland and which will only come to full fruition once independence is somehow gained, is coming courtesy of other peoples money.
The biggest delusion in UK politics is the SNP fuelled one which says that Scotland is more intrinsically progressive politically than any other part of the UK. Scotland is only more left leaning than other parts of the UK because other Brits are paying for it.

CLAPTON

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

For the most part Snake, elantan, Leanne, and others haven't been outright anti-English (at least not that I've seen/felt), or any other peoples of the UK. They come across more anti-Westminster.

The same can't be said for the comments sections on places like Wings over Scotland though.

the majority at Westminster is voted in by the English : hence westminster = english

So with our tribe of Scottish nationalists on here appearing to be moderate, I don't get why the economics still don't matter. Why not wait until the economics can be sorted to such an extent that Scotland would indeed be better off or richer outside of the UK? It's certainly not the case at the moment, particularly with the caveat of having to join/remain in the EU as part of a new referendum on independence.

makes no economic sense to wait: economic circumstance change all the time so if iscotland is ever to be viable then go for it now and create the circumstances for success, if iscotland is never going to be viable then forget it now.

It would make more sense to wait until the argument can be conclusively won before asking the people again, instead of trying to rush it through 2 years after the first referendum on the issue in history on terms that are far from ideal to Scotland.

obviously so, as Nicola will only fight for a referendum once the polls show round 60% in favour otherwise another failed referendum would distory the issue for at least 30 years and destroy her career.

the polls will be all that matter, the rest is just hot air.