The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

TrickyTree83

elantan wrote: »

And you seem to have completely ignored the fact you are a nationalist ...

If I'm a British nationalist that should have no bearing on the question that might be put before you.

You're not getting full independence, you already said no to that.

Now it's stay in the UK outside the EU, or go independent and then cede that to Brussels straight away. It's more a question of - which union do you want to be in?

Devolving, or centralising?

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

In a nutshell I want the UK to be able to do its own trade deals. As part of the EU, we're unable to do that

Whereas I want the UK to have access to the best trade deals, which are only available as part of the EU, not to leave and then spend decades renegotiating inferior deals.

I want the UK to remain Within the single market so our companies and consumers can continue to benefit from it.

And I want to ensure the rights of Brits to live and work throughout Europe are protected.

If the UK wants to give all that up then I will be campaigning for Scotland to remain in the EU/single market by any means necessary.

Even if that means the break up of the U.K.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Rinoa wrote: »

We want to self govern.

You don't want to self govern, you want different government.

I don't much care which political entity has primacy as they are all eventually subservient to economic reality anyway.

So I choose national prosperity over nationalism every time.

And an iScotland remaining within the EU would have a materially brighter economic future than a Scotland remaining within the UK but out with the EU.

TrickyTree83

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Whereas I want the UK to have access to the best trade deals, which are only available as part of the EU, not to leave and then spend decades renegotiating inferior deals.

I want the UK to remain Within the single market so our companies and consumers can continue to benefit from it.

And I want to ensure the rights of Brits to live and work throughout Europe are protected.

If the UK wants to give all that up then I will be campaigning for Scotland to remain in the EU/single market by any means necessary.

Even if that means the break up of the U.K.

The EU has taken nearly a decade to do a trade deal with Canada.

I don't believe that the trade deals we would strike outside the EU would be vastly inferior, and in the (imo) unlikely event that they were we'd still be able to get more sorted out in a shoter period of time that it takes the EU to do one.. just one.

I'd be quite happy with a Norway/Switzerland relationship with the EU. I've said that many times and the pair of those countries do very well out of it.

martinsurrey

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Whereas I want the UK to have access to the best trade deals, which are only available as part of the EU, not to leave and then spend decades renegotiating inferior deals.

I want the UK to remain Within the single market so our companies and consumers can continue to benefit from it.

Even if that means the break up of the U.K.

http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy/Exports/ESSPublication

The best trade deal for Scotland is the one it has currently, in the Union, 64% of Scotlands exports are to rUK.

Any trade deal done by Europe with the UK would be the same trade deal between an independent Scotland and rUK, and I don't think they'll be as good terms as the Union.

I was remain, but I don't see a sensible economic argument for Scotland to leave based on Brexit.

TrickyTree83

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

I don't much care which political entity has primacy as they are all eventually subservient to economic reality anyway.

So I choose national prosperity over nationalism every time.

And an iScotland remaining within the EU would have a materially brighter economic future than a Scotland remaining within the UK but out with the EU.

Short term yes, medium term no. The ability for us to trade freely with the rest of the world at lower prices (see common cutsoms tariff) will lower the cost of living long term. There's also the issue of Scotland needing to find £43bn per year from somewhere just to carry on as you are right now as that's what Scotland gets from the exchequer at the moment. Borrowing £15bn at UK rates and getting £24bn for... well... nothing.

I would argue that prosperity in the Brexit paradigm would be to remain in the UK. Our banks aren't on the brink like the Italian and German banks.

http://economyandmarkets.com/economy/banking/europe-bigger-problem-brexit/

Rinoa

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

I don't much care which political entity has primacy as they are all eventually subservient to economic reality anyway.

So I choose national prosperity over nationalism every time.

And an iScotland remaining within the EU would have a materially brighter economic future than a Scotland remaining within the UK but out with the EU.

You're more knowledgeable than I on Scottish matters. But I wouldn't have thought the EU would be offering Scotland £15BN every year.

mollycat

CLAPTON wrote: »

scotland doesn't want to be independent : they want to be free of the english

Tut tut, generalising again.

I don't want to be "free of the english", and I don't know anyone who does.

You need to stop tarring people with easy to hand brushes.

CLAPTON

mollycat wrote: »

Tut tut, generalising again.

I don't want to be "free of the english", and I don't know anyone who does.

You need to stop tarring people with easy to hand brushes.

the only intelligent way of having a political discussion, is indeed by generalising. Your limiited social circle is clearly not representative of the class of 'all scots that wish independence but want to join the EU'.

TrickyTree83

CLAPTON wrote: »

the only intelligent way of having a political discussion, is indeed by generalising. Your limiited social circle is clearly not representative of the class of 'all scots that wish independence but want to join the EU'.

But do all Scots share the views of the shouty SNP?

Certainly there's 20,000+ who don't who have signed a petition to "#purgethesturge".

Also the voting statistics appear to indicate that there's between 1,000,000 and 1,600,000 Scots who identify with the SNP and their agenda. The rest, some 2,400,000 Scots eligible to vote don't appear to want to vote or agree with those views, or both!