The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

CLAPTON

elantan wrote: »

I tell ya what ... let's give HR all the powers that WM have over HR and and give WM the powers HR have ... I will listen to your screams and see if you feel your government has enough power then

I'm sure you won't feel short changed when your taxes arrive and we give you pocket money back to play with ... we won't rub it in your face however ... we will just nod knowingly

that would be good as long as HR is voted for by all the people of the UK in a proper democratic manner.

TrickyTree83

elantan wrote: »

Oh and when we tell you what to spend it on we won't laugh ... and we won't keep telling you your the most powerful government ...

Seems like you're being sold a dud by someone.

"The Scotland Act 1998 created a Scottish Parliament with powers to make laws on a range of issues. Schedule 5 of the Scotland Act 1998 lists what is reserved to the UK Parliament. If a matter is not mentioned as being reserved in this part of the Act, it is devolved to the Scottish Parliament."

Reserved matters include

benefits and social security
immigration
defence
foreign policy
employment
broadcasting
trade and industry
nuclear energy, oil, coal, gas and electricity
consumer rights
data protection
the Constitution

And some of these have been given back in the 2016 act.

Plus - I only have a UK government to represent me. You have far more power local to you than I do. And we get less £ per head than you do.

Again and again the argument appears to be an emotional one. If that's not the case I'm interested to know what Scotland will be able to do independently that it cannot do now that would mean you would give up all of this devolution, all of this subsidy and greater democratic voice in WM for an independent Scotland and a centralising of powers by the EU in Brussels. I dare say in 10 years you'll be wondering what the hell you've done when the 5 presidents report and the suggestions of a EU superstate come into being.

elantan

And that's before we even get to defence ... we won't drag you into wars you don't want to be part of ...

I could go on and on ... but I don't think anything I could say will ever have an effect on you ... so I will stop and just tell you

We are different and wont agree ... I don't even think we could find a common ground to start from so let's just give up ...

Independence is coming whether you or others want it or not ... even my opinion won't matter ... what will be will be

TrickyTree83

elantan wrote: »

And that's before we even get to defence ... we won't drag you into wars you don't want to be part of ...

I could go on and on ... but I don't think anything I could say will ever have an effect on you ... so I will stop and just tell you

We are different and wont agree ... I don't even think we could find a common ground to start from so let's just give up ...

Independence is coming whether you or others want it or not ... even my opinion won't matter ... what will be will be

I think you're in the minority in being unwilling to listen to the arguments against it. Which was what I was alluding to when analysing the voting figures. It looks to me like it's not coming and that this Scottish nationalism is just divisive in the same way UKIP and racial hatred is.

elantan

I am curious though why something being an emotive issue is such a negative ... Are humans not emotive beings ? Have we to shove our emotions so deep down inside us we can never use them? Is doing that a healthy place for a human to be

Or is it because there is no real argument with an emotion?

You have deffinately got me thinking on that subject ... might help with the push for independence


Thanks

elantan

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

I think you're in the minority in being unwilling to listen to the arguments against it. Which was what I was alluding to when analysing the voting figures. It looks to me like it's not coming and that this Scottish nationalism is just divisive in the same way UKIP and racial hatred is.

You really can't see a difference between UKIP and people living in Scotland that want independence for their country ?

Your actually incapable of seeing any difference ?

Seriously ?

TrickyTree83

elantan wrote: »

I am curious though why something being an emotive issue is such a negative ... Are humans not emotive beings ? Have we to shove our emotions so deep down inside us we can never use them? Is doing that a healthy place for a human to be

Or is it because there is no real argument with an emotion?

You have deffinately got me thinking on that subject ... might help with the push for independence


Thanks

It would be a negative if you were unwilling to look at the positives and negatives of independence in the cold hard light of day and base your decision on that rather than some misguided affinity with William Wallace or Mel Gibson.

TrickyTree83

elantan wrote: »

You really can't see a difference between UKIP and people living in Scotland that want independence for their country ?

Your actually incapable of seeing any difference ?

Seriously ?

Different but obviously still divisive.

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/divisive

"used to describe something that causes great and sometimes unfriendly disagreement within a group of people"

elantan

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

It would be a negative if you were unwilling to look at the positives and negatives of independence in the cold hard light of day and base your decision on that rather than some misguided affinity with William Wallace or Mel Gibson.

Has anyone suggested they don't look at the positives and negatives of anything ? Are you suggesting people can only be one thing ? Humans can multi task ... they are good that way

There are both positives and negatives with going independent. To suggest otherwise would be folly

TrickyTree83

elantan wrote: »

Has anyone suggested they don't look at the positives and negatives of anything ? Are you suggesting people can only be one thing ? Humans can multi task ... they are good that way

There are both positives and negatives with going independent. To suggest otherwise would be folly

Are you able to give me any explicit positives then?

At the moment all I can see is:

- less of a voice in the EU
- £15bn deficit per year absorbed by the UK as a whole
- £24bn loss of income per year if Barnett ceased
- oil indsutry propped up by the UK taxpayer
- increasingly devolved power to the Scottish parliament
- 90% of Scottish trade with a country in the union