The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

elantan

You would think there was a bias I accept that, and I really expected that, but ( again it is anecdotal evidence) I know people that want indy, but voted to leave the EU and through it all have discovered they no longer respect the SNP, they want what they call " Real independence" and felt the SNP were trying to force them, but it also worked the other way, my husband and son both want out the EU but voted to remain as they want a second indy ref.

That's what I mean when I say we cant really know ( as you correctly point out with the bookies). Its just very messed up and the opinion polls never seem to get it right anymore. so there really isn't any point in trying to work it all out ... maybe best to let it play out and deal with the outcome?

TrickyTree83

elantan wrote: »

You would think there was a bias I accept that, and I really expected that, but ( again it is anecdotal evidence) I know people that want indy, but voted to leave the EU and through it all have discovered they no longer respect the SNP, they want what they call " Real independence" and felt the SNP were trying to force them, but it also worked the other way, my husband and son both want out the EU but voted to remain as they want a second indy ref.

That's what I mean when I say we cant really know ( as you correctly point out with the bookies). Its just very messed up and the opinion polls never seem to get it right anymore. so there really isn't any point in trying to work it all out ... maybe best to let it play out and deal with the outcome?

It's interesting you point out "Real Independence", it's my view that the SNP is twisting the EU result to achieve their political aims but that by doing so they will be just transferring power from Westminster to Brussels. After independence the Scottish parliament would gain power in some areas and lose in others (that they'll be getting back in due course) but in the EU institutions the Scottish voice will be diluted much more than it is currently within Westminster. How can that be good for Scotland? Less MEP's, one seat on the council and a population the size of Finland, EU heavyweights they are not. Whereas in Westminster the SNP have 56 MP's out of a total of 650. Currently the UK by proportion of population has 73 MEP's. In Scotland you have 6. Finland have 13. The total number of MEP's is 736.

So in Westminster you have a voice which represents 8.6% of parliament. In the EU you would have (at best I would imagine based on Finland) 1.8% of the EU parliament.

How is that good for Scotland?

elantan

Well I think really that is for the people of Scotland to decide, I merely point out what people tell me, some want out the EU and the UK some want in both and some want a mixer of ideas... Tis a melting pot of people

TrickyTree83

elantan wrote: »

Well I think really that is for the people of Scotland to decide, I merely point out what people tell me, some want out the EU and the UK some want in both and some want a mixer of ideas... Tis a melting pot of people

Do you not feel the SNP are twisting the situation?

As in:

2014 - SNP say they want a vote for Scottish independence and the EU says they would have to re-apply. They lose the vote.

Early 2016 - SNP win Scottish parliamentary elections with an EU referendum on the horizon and pledge to hold another independence referendum if Scotland is pulled out of the EU against its will (something they were campaigning for by default in 2014?!).

Mid 2016 - EU ref, UK votes to leave, Scotland votes to remain. SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon now has to put her promise into action which would also require Scotland to re-apply for EU membership since it was based on a Remain vote. Regardless of the fact Spain has said they would veto this, it would be removing power from Westminster where you have a greater voice and putting it in the EU where you have less of a voice.

Then factor in:

- the £15bn per year structual deficit in the Scottish budget
- the £24bn per year Barnett subsidy
- the poor performance of North Sea oil
- how 90% of Scottish trade is with the rest of the UK

and it looks to me like a recipie for disaster where you will have 1.8% of the EU parliament vote to try and push your agendas within the EU instead of 8.6% in Westminster. And yet the SNP and those who support them push on blindly.

I cannot understand why some would think Scotland would be better off in the EU and not the Union. I would love it if someone could explain it to me.

elantan

No I dont, not any more than any other political party. I think they are the best we currently have, but I do look forward to when we are independent and new parties emerge

TrickyTree83

elantan wrote: »

No I dont, not any more than any other political party. I think they are the best we currently have, but I do look forward to when we are independent and new parties emerge

So would you say your vote for an independent Scotland would be an emotional vote?

I'm interested to hear what you think about the points I made.

Rinoa

[FONT=&quot]Saw this on another forum. Hilarious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TbTC96ZUms

[/FONT]

TrickyTree83

Rinoa wrote: »

[FONT=&quot]Saw this on another forum. Hilarious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TbTC96ZUms

[/FONT]

Some interesting stuff on that #purgethesturge tag.

https://www.change.org/p/the-scottish-call-for-nicola-sturgeon-to-stand-down-as-first-minister-of-scotland

"((Agent Teacake))) ‏@BigGfaetheBigG Jul 2
46.7% of Scotland's eligible electorate voted No.

41.7% of Scotland's eligible electorate voted Remain.

#purgethesturge"

^^ that's similar to what I've been getting at. Alongside 1m votes in the Scottish parliament being described by Salmond as a landslide and a 46% win. Looks to me more like 25% of the eligible vote, possibly even less.

And the SNP going nuts about this:

http://www.cityam.com/244597/scottish-national-party-hits-out-suggestions-michael-gove

And yet wanting independence... odd, on the one hand they acknowledge their need for Barnett monies and on the other hand continually deride the hand that gives it to them.

elantan

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

So would you say your vote for an independent Scotland would be an emotional vote?

I'm interested to hear what you think about the points I made.

My reason for wanting Independence is I believe the people that are the best to make decisions about a country are the ones that have to live with the results, I believe Scotland should be independent , if I lived in England I would support English independence, if I lived in Wales I would support Welsh independence and so it goes on.

It's not hard to see or understand that We should rule ourselves.

I also believe it is good to share ideas between countries but I believe it is ultimately up to those countries if they choose to take those ideas up

ruggedtoast

elantan wrote: »

My reason for wanting I dependence is I believe the people that are the nest to make decisions about a country are the ones that have to live with the results, I believe Scotland should be independent , if I lived in England I would support English independence, if I lived in Wales I would support Welsh independence and so it goes on.

It's not hard to see or understand that We should rule ourselves.

I also believe it is good to share ideas between countries but I believe it is ultimately up to those countries if they choose to take those ideas up

Well I am bloody well not supporting it. I cannot imagine what kind of government we would end up with here.

They're already talking about deporting people from the EU who live here.

:-(