The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

antrobus

Shakethedisease wrote: »

... My goodness standards have fallen far since I started posting here a few years ago.

That might not be a coincidence.:)

Rainbowgirl84

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Right so a few sensationalist quotes from SNP hating newspapers, one from three years ago. Derek Mackay hasn't been Transport for quite some time.
Why not produce some real evidence for a change. The Scottish NHS is doing far better than all it's UK counterparts. So you can chew on that for a while. Come back when you've read the report.
http://www.healthbusinessuk.net/news/05072017/uk-can-learn-scotland%E2%80%99s-nhs

The English/Welsh and NI NHS's are lagging behind in comparison in most areas. Something the likes of the Scotsman ( which will fold soon as it's lost most of it's readership ) , the Daily Record and BBC will never admit to.

As for the tax 'conundrum' there is none. It's not a competition and if you don't take income tax in isolation.. residents of Scotland get far more bang for their buck when it comes to day to day lives ie prescriptions, tuition fees, personal care etc etc. Most don't mind paying a hardly noticeable extra for that. Especially when the NHS in Scotland is SO much better than elsewhere in the UK, and our kids don't rack up 30k's worth of debt going to Uni.

Do people here really believe nonsense like this ? I thought this board was supposed to have people who know a bit about economics about ? Obviously not if ( again ) evidence free pearls of wisdom like this are being taken as gospel. My goodness standards have fallen far since I started posting here a few years ago.

I agree, standards have fallen.

antrobus

Rainbowgirl84 wrote: »

I agree standards, have fallen.

So do I. The poster concerned appears not to understand that whatever extra 'bang' the 'residents of Scotland' are getting it's not their buck that's paying for it. It's the (mainly) English taxpayers who are providing the bucks in question, to the tune of £8bn+ GBP every darned year.

I do my best from time to time to seek to educate people about such basic economic issues, but what can you do if they fail to listen? I can only do my best.:)

Tromking

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Do people here really believe nonsense like this ? I thought this board was supposed to have people who know a bit about economics about ? Obviously not if ( again ) evidence free pearls of wisdom like this are being taken as gospel. My goodness standards have fallen far since I started posting here a few years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FucizmkldGw

More than happy for you to debunk the theory that says Scotland is now responsible for 34% of the UK wide deficit.
Fill yer boots.

Shakethedisease

antrobus wrote: »

That might not be a coincidence.:)

You're right actually. You only started posting on these Scottish threads relatively recently. Thanks for the reminder.

Shakethedisease

Tromking wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FucizmkldGw

More than happy for you to debunk the theory that says Scotland is now responsible for 34% of the UK wide deficit.
Fill yer boots.

Kevin 'I can't believe Brexit is happening so I'll ignore it completely' Hague ? You're having a laugh. He's as partisan as Wings over Scotland so should be taken with just as big a pinch of salt. His 'facts and figures' are made to fit his agenda, just like bloggers do in the opposite direction.


I have no idea why you're quoting a blogger like Hague as fact ? Is there a particular reason why you rely on random blogs on the internet for your Scottish facts and figures ?

In any case, when someone on a thread posts multiple 'fail' comments. One should at least state what the fail in in context/relation and being compared to. Because compared to the English NHS, the Scottish one is doing really well. As are several other public services. Flaws and problems yes... but not as bad as elsewhere in the UK. From what I've read about NHS problems elsewhere in the UK, I'm very glad I live here. They're failing much worse and it's only fair to mention so in threads like these.

The NHS waiting list in England is the longest it has been in 11 years, official figures have revealed today.A staggering 4,154,559 people – around six per cent of the entire UK population – were waiting to start hospital treatment at the end of August.
This number is the highest it has been since August 2007, and more than 3,000 people have been waiting more than a year for routine treatment.
A&E departments are also getting busier and cancer treatment waiting times have been missed for the 32nd month in a row, NHS data showed.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6265523/NHS-waiting-list-longest-11-years.html

The above is absolutely shameful and they're even having to start sending patients to Scotland for treatment.

A severe shortage of beds for patients with life-threatening eating disorders has forced the NHS to send more than 100 patients from England to Scotland for treatment since 2016, the Guardian can reveal.

English NHS - FAIL ! Epic.

Tromking

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Kevin 'I can't believe Brexit is happening so I'll ignore it completely' Hague ? You're having a laugh. He's as partisan as Wings over Scotland so should be taken with just as big a pinch of salt. His 'facts and figures' are made to fit his agenda, just like bloggers do in the opposite direction.


I have no idea why you're quoting a blogger like Hague as fact ? Is there a particular reason why you rely on random blogs on the internet for your Scottish facts and figures ?

In any case, when someone on a thread posts multiple 'fail' comments. One should at least state what the fail in in context/relation and being compared to. Because compared to the English NHS, the Scottish one is doing really well. As are several other public services. Flaws and problems yes... but not as bad as elsewhere in the UK. From what I've read about NHS problems elsewhere in the UK, I'm very glad I live here. They're failing much worse and it's only fair to mention so in threads like these.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6265523/NHS-waiting-list-longest-11-years.html

The above is absolutely shameful and they're even having to start sending patients to Scotland for treatment.English NHS - FAIL ! Epic.

I can’t speak for other posters but my point is that I can understand why English public services are failing, we’ve had proper full blown austerity down here. It’s less clear to me why some Scots are complaining about their public services because in comparison to England, Scotland has escaped the worst excesses of the austerity era.
I note you you haven’t chosen to dial down on the figures used by Kevin Hague on the Scottish deficit. If he is wrong, can you explain how he is wrong. Genuinely interested.

Shakethedisease

Tromking wrote: »

I can’t speak for other posters but my point is that I can understand why English public services are failing, we’ve had proper full blown austerity down here. It’s less clear to me why some Scots are complaining about their public services because in comparison to England, Scotland has escaped the worst excesses of the austerity era.

That doesn't explain Wales or NI doing so badly though. They get the same Barnett consequentials. Scotland is top of the NHS heap currently, so if one can state Scotland NHS - FAIL.. then one can certainly state that English NHS is - EPIC FAIL.

I note you you haven’t chosen to dial down on the figures used by Kevin Hague on the Scottish deficit. If he is wrong, can you explain how he is wrong. Genuinely interested.

You note correctly. Imagine if I started posting WingsoverScotland facts and figures then asked you to start debunking them. That's never going to happen is it ? Don't see why I should be held to a any different standard when it comes to Kevin Hague really. Do you ?


Read the below percentages to see what the Scottish public think from 2007 when the SNP came to power till now. If the below is failure...

https://www.gov.scot/publications/scotlands-people-annual-report-results-2017-scottish-household-survey/pages/0/

Tromking

Shakethedisease wrote: »

You note correctly. Imagine if I started posting WingsoverScotland facts and figures then asked you to start debunking them. That's never going to happen is it ? Don't see why I should be held to a any different standard when it comes to Kevin Hague really. Do you?

You're reluctance to make your case that Scotland is not responsible for a third of the UK's deficit is again noted. You're not usually so reticent Shakey.
I'm happy for you to link to WoS or anyone for that matter in order to debunk the theory, go on humour me.
I suspect the only thing you'll be able to rustle up, is the rather hackneyed SNP argument that unless the Scottish Government is in control of all the economic levers then the figures are to be ignored.

Shakethedisease

Tromking wrote: »

You're reluctance to make your case that Scotland is not responsible for a third of the UK's deficit is again noted. You're not usually so reticent Shakey.
I'm happy for you to link to WoS or anyone for that matter in order to debunk the theory, go on humour me.
I suspect the only thing you'll be able to rustle up, is the rather hackneyed SNP argument that unless the Scottish Government is in control of all the economic levers then the figures are to be ignored.

I'm sorry that I'm not going to waste my time trying to prove or disprove anything Kevin Hague blogs about. But Scotland being responsible for a third of the UK's deficit is clearly nonsense. Not least because he insists on constantly comparing Scotland to the entirety of the UK. Scotland v's the UK.


The truth is, and I''ve repeated so recently on here, that the true picture is of a rUK v's London in terms of deficits. As a region of the UK Scotland performs quite well on those given measures. However, trying to superimpose regional figures such as GERS and pretending they are anything like comparable to an independent country's figures is lunacy.


Debunk the below stats if you must though.

UK Deficit = £49Bn

Sco Deficit = £13Bn (£2467 per head)

Wal Deficit = £10Bn (£3265 per head)

NI Deficit = £13Bn (£7178 per head)

Wait for it...... Eng Deficit = £13Bn (£245 per head)

55Mn people are responsible for £13Bn

10Mn people are responsible for £36Bn ?

The English Deficit figures above compared to Wales, NI and Scotland are obviously pure fiction. I suspect the figures are arrived at because there are never any real separate figures for England. It's always UK v's Scotland/Wales or NI. Which is an unfair comparison to make for obvious reasons. Hague does it all the time too. As well as completely ignoring possible Brexit consequences in his 'facts'.