The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Shakethedisease

cogito wrote: »

An opinion poll this week by Survation found that given the chance, 60% of voters would vote to remain in the UK.

BTW. Where's shakey?

I'm here. The Survation poll didn't ask the independence question. And in any case only once there's a real tangible date and vote will any campaign really get going.


Coming soon though. Looking like an election after a section 30 is refused. The language and visibility of Nicola and other key members of the SNP has changed VERY noticably since Teresa came back with her deal. Also that Spanish veto looks like it's turned round and bitten Westminster on the behind. Scotland would be ok to rejoing apparently says Sanchez.. And hidden oil fields we were all accused of tin foil hattery a few years ago... confirmed today oil flowing at Clair Ridge.
Just a waiting game again until Parliament ( Westminster ) decides what it's going to do with this awful terrible pleases no one deal. In the meantime, it's truly popcorn time ( cc elantan ) watching Telegraph columnists wax lyrical about using UK oil as a bargaining chip..

North Sea oil can still be the bargaining chip we need

Oil is Britain’s thin red line against a hard Brexit. The North Sea provided an economic buffer during the “winter of discontent” of 1978 and the “Black Monday” stock market crash, which almost destroyed the City a decade later....

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/11/08/north-sea-oil-can-still-bargaining-chip-need/

And EU countries clamour for continued access to Scotland's.. whoops I mean the UK's fishing grounds. They need to start talking to Sturgeon.. she'll be in charge of both of those soon enough. :cool:

Shakethedisease

Cetshwayo wrote: »

Can the Nats please explain how their Brexit stance on fishing squares with their stance on Independence, remaining in the EU and fishing?

The SNP cannot stand the CFP and are against it as a policy. They have no chance and their hands are tied re renegotiating any aspect of CFP while the talks remain at Westminster level.

We will continue to demand the scrapping or fundamental reform of the CFP and Scottish control of fisheries – and oppose any attempt to treat the fishing industry as a Brexit bargaining chip.
We will also oppose any attempt by the UK government to treat the fishing industry as a bargaining chip. Having sold out fishing as ‘expendable’ on the way into the EU, a Tory government must not be allowed to betray it again on the way out.

Fishing is fully devolved and we will expect all powers over policy to be repatriated to Scotland when the UK leaves the EU.

<

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not happening/power grab by Westminster.

foxtrotoscar_2

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I'm here. The Survation poll didn't ask the independence question. And in any case only once there's a real tangible date and vote will any campaign really get going.


Coming soon though. Looking like an election after a section 30 is refused. The language and visibility of Nicola and other key members of the SNP has changed VERY noticably since Teresa came back with her deal. Also that Spanish veto looks like it's turned round and bitten Westminster on the behind. Scotland would be ok to rejoing apparently says Sanchez.. And hidden oil fields we were all accused of tin foil hattery a few years ago... confirmed today oil flowing at Clair Ridge.
Just a waiting game again until Parliament ( Westminster ) decides what it's going to do with this awful terrible pleases no one deal. In the meantime, it's truly popcorn time ( cc elantan ) watching Telegraph columnists wax lyrical about using UK oil as a bargaining chip..https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/11/08/north-sea-oil-can-still-bargaining-chip-need/

And EU countries clamour for continued access to Scotland's.. whoops I mean the UK's fishing grounds. They need to start talking to Sturgeon.. she'll be in charge of both of those soon enough. :cool:

...and she'll give them away in a blink of an eye...that's the problem and the fishermen know it.

foxtrotoscar_2

Shakethedisease wrote: »

The SNP cannot stand the CFP and are against it as a policy. They have no chance and their hands are tied re renegotiating any aspect of CFP while the talks remain at Westminster level. <

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not happening/power grab by Westminster.

It's a phased handover, which is sensible...Holyrood have a history of delaying taking other responsibilities.

antrobus

Shakethedisease wrote: »

The SNP cannot stand the CFP and are against it as a policy. ...

But the SNP are in favour of EU membership.

The SNP believe that EU membership delivers many social, economic and cultural benefits for individuals, business and communities across Scotland. We believe that the best way to build a more prosperous and equal Scotland is to be a full independent member of the EU.

https://www.snp.org/policies/pb-what-is-the-snp-s-position-on-the-eu/

The CFP is an integral part of the EU. It's part of the acquis.
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/114/the-common-fisheries-policy-origins-and-development

Being against the CFP as a 'matter of policy' and in favour of the EU as a 'matter of policy' doesn't make sense. If a hypothetically independent Scotland were to apply for EU membership it would have to sign up to the EU as is including the CFP.

Ain't politics fun? All these people trying to sell you a dozen impossible things before breakfast just to bamboozle you into voting for 'em.:)

Or perhaps we should all just remember that the EU is short for the European Union, and contemplate what the word 'union' means.

Shakethedisease

antrobus wrote: »

But the SNP are in favour of EU membership.

The SNP believe that EU membership delivers many social, economic and cultural benefits for individuals, business and communities across Scotland. We believe that the best way to build a more prosperous and equal Scotland is to be a full independent member of the EU.

https://www.snp.org/policies/pb-what-is-the-snp-s-position-on-the-eu/

The CFP is an integral part of the EU. It's part of the acquis.
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/114/the-common-fisheries-policy-origins-and-development

Being against the CFP as a 'matter of policy' and in favour of the EU as a 'matter of policy' doesn't make sense. If a hypothetically independent Scotland were to apply for EU membership it would have to sign up to the EU as is including the CFP.

Ain't politics fun? All these people trying to sell you a dozen impossible things before breakfast just to bamboozle you into voting for 'em.:)

Or perhaps we should all just remember that the EU is short for the European Union, and contemplate what the word 'union' means.

It is what it is. The SNP have always been against the CFP as a matter of policy. However, it's only one of many policies and there are other areas where EU policy is agreeable. I guess it's just a question of priorities.. there are only 5000 fishermen in Scotland, with most of the fish quotas being managed between 5 or 6 fishing families. There are other industries/professions and workers to consider also which make EU membership advantageous.

They'll go for EFTA anyway upon launching any independence campaign not full EU membership. It's a no brainer in terms of pleasing fishermen and Yes/leaver/soft No and EU voters - while leaving support of core Yes voters of 2014 intact. This, makes perfect sense.

I don't think we're going to leave the EU now actually. Teresa has blown the whole thing keeping too many contradictory red lines going all this time. In the end she's just had to cave on everything.. She should've gone for a soft/Norway/EFTA type Brexit at the very start but too late now.

Cetshwayo

Shakethedisease wrote: »

while leaving support of core Yes voters of 2014 intact.

You hope, reality on the ground is very different. We have passed peak nationalism and there are a lot of very disgruntled voters out their who ar not happy with Nicola's grievance style of politics.

There will be no Indi 2 vote and if they are daft enough to try then the result in favour will be markedly less.

zagubov

antrobus wrote: »

GERS shows that, since 1998-99, Scotland has accumulated fiscal deficits after including a geographical share of North Sea revenues amounting to £171,202 bn, or 14.23% of the UK total. Scotland has 8.3% of the UK population. Do the math.:)

Naturally therefore, the starting point in any hypothetical independence negotiations will be for Scotland to take on a 14.23% share of the UK total national debt.

.

Ah yes.... naturally!:rotfl::T

elantan

Cetshwayo wrote: »

You hope, reality on the ground is very different. We have passed peak nationalism and there are a lot of very disgruntled voters out their who ar not happy with Nicola's grievance style of politics.

There will be no Indi 2 vote and if they are daft enough to try then the result in favour will be markedly less.

it's weird cause for the first time in a long time people in my work have started talking about Indy ref 2 ... and even a few have said they would vote yes this time, I still get a few that are staunch no voters and always will be, but a few of the soft no voters are now going towards yes, and talking about it

I accept this is my work though and not representative of Scotland as a whole

gfplux

I assume all posters interested in Scotland have received this from the Home Office, but if you did not.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pm-promises-deal-which-works-for-scotland?utm_source=368e512a-6eca-4baa-9f50-79ca6fadf03d&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=govuk-notifications&utm_content=immediate