The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Thrugelmir

molerat wrote: »

Another one taken in by the SNP propaganda machine.

Unlikely to be new. More likely a resurrection of the old. There's no thing as a free lunch. Polticians love to give them ot. Trouble is they have to be paid from somewhere. Another budget will be be suffering.

Shakethedisease

CosmoChic wrote: »

What perplexes me, as it must you too I'm sure, is why a proud, proud nation like England renowned for its tremendous fiscal mangement appears to consider it to be fiscally responsible to retain within the union a nation amounting to some 8.3% of the overall population, yet who (allegedly) is responsible for some 33%(approx) of the entire deficit. The mind boggles. Unless .... unless .... hmmmm ..... there are lies, there are damned lies, there are statistics and then there are GERS figures

Yes, that's something that REALLY doesn't sit well, nor is ever explained.

This means that the three of the four parts of the UK which aren’t England are collectively responsible for £37.95 billion of a UK annual deficit which according to the Office for National Statistics is £46.9 billion.Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland together contain a population of 10.3 million, as compared to the UK population of 66.5 million.

England on the other hand, with a population of 56.2 million, is apparently responsible for the rest of the deficit, a mere £8.95 billion. Which means that according to the published figures, 15.5% of the UK population is supposedly responsible for 80.9% of the deficit.

https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2018/08/22/the-scottish-version-of-groundhog-day/
Pull the other one eh ! But it doesn't really matter anymore. The folks here sadly would rather concentrate on putting fingers in ears and 'lalalalalalala' whenever anyone asks about Brexit's possible effect on UK/Scotland's economy. As well as seriously ( and really believing this ) trying to put forward the nonsensical argument that Westminster making a total a**e of Scotland's economy is a really and truly brilliant reason for Scotland to stick with it.

Time to do something different, things clearly aren't working for Scotland IF GERS figures are to be taken at face value - which unfortunately not many do these days. Oh apart from a few overzealous bloggers and the usual media commentators ( Massie, Fraser, Daily Record etc ) who suck it up 100%.

If the data was produced correctly what it would show is that Scotland is doing better than most parts of the UK but is doing vastly worse, as is everywhere else, than the south-east of England, including London. The divide is not between Scotland and the rest of the UK, as all the GERS charts imply, but is instead between the south-east of England and the rest of the UK.

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2018/08/22/gers-really-is-crap/

Tromking

I'm no economist Shakey, but perhaps the answer to England's relatively low share of the deficit is that it is responsible for the vast majority of the UK's economic output but does not then give its citizens an extra £1.5k per capita on public spending. Rather than declare the figures are somehow wrong isn't the onus on Nationalists to tell us why they are wrong?
I'm all ears.

Shakethedisease

Tromking wrote: »

I'm no economist Shakey, but perhaps the answer to England's relatively low share of the deficit is that it is responsible for the vast majority of the UK's economic output but does not then give its citizens an extra £1.5k per capita on public spending. Rather than declare the figures are somehow wrong isn't the onus on Nationalists to tell us why they are wrong?
I'm all ears.

That was already covered above and is nothing to do with Scotland v's the UK and more to do with =>

The divide is not between Scotland and the rest of the UK, as all the GERS charts imply, but is instead between the south-east of England and the rest of the UK.

There's also the matter of why England's ( hypothetical ) deficit has fallen so brilliantly, when the devolved nations seem to be staying static.

Deficit 15/16
SCO £14.8Bn
WAL £9.2Bn
NI £14.7Bn
ENG £28.3Bn

Deficit 16/17

SCO £14.3Bn
WAL £9.3Bn
NI £13.2Bn
ENG £8.7Bn

Reduction V Increase (Yr on Yr)

SCO -3.3%
WAL +1.1%
NI -10.2%
ENG -69.3%

There seems to be some VERY creative accounting going somewhere isn't there. Either that or the UK only seems to be working in favour of one of it's nations with the other 3 practically standing still. Which ever it is, isn't good. Which do you think it is ?

Deficit 16/17 Wales. £9.3Bn. Population 3million

England £8.7Bn. Population 55 million

This is from 2015/16. The 2017/18 total is £40bn.
What's interesting is that the current split is Sco £13bn, Wal £13bn, NI £10bn, Eng £4bn. So Sc/Wa/NI deficits have barely moved, while England's has fallen from £28bn to £4bn, in 2 years. This is clearly nonsense.

:rotfl:

Tromking

Again shakey you've quoted some quite remarkable figures which I'm prepared to take at face value and you won't. If they're wrong, why are they wrong?
If I was to hazard a guess, I would put it largely down to the fact that England has suffered a level of departmental budget cuts that the rUK hasn't, couple that with a considerably higher per capita public sector spend in Scotland, then perhaps your mystery is explained.
It does take a special kind of grievance mentality to think that Scotland not being expected to experience English levels of austerity is somehow an example of poor governance by Westminster!
As a resident of the South West region of the UK, I'm more than happy to admit that my existence is being subsidised by the London and South East regions, but then again I'm not in the business of trying persuade anyone it doesn't in order to justify a breakaway from the Union.

antrobus

Shakethedisease wrote: »

That was already covered above and is nothing to do with Scotland v's the UK and more to do with => There's also the matter of why England's ( hypothetical ) deficit has fallen so brilliantly, when the devolved nations seem to be staying static.
There seems to be some VERY creative accounting going somewhere isn't there. Either that or the UK only seems to be working in favour of one of it's nations with the other 3 practically standing still. Which ever it is, isn't good. Which do you think it is ? :rotfl:

GERS is a national statistic.

GERS is compiled by statisticians and economists in the Office of the Chief Economic Adviser of the Scottish Government. The Scottish Government's Chief Statistician takes responsibility for this publication.

https://www.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy/GERS

Don't blame me if the current Scottish government can't do numbers. Perhaps the Scots should consider voting in a different government that is more competent.:)

antrobus

Shakethedisease wrote: »

... There's also the matter of why England's ( hypothetical ) deficit has fallen so brilliantly, when the devolved nations seem to be staying static.
...

Because London is in England.

London produces a whacking big surplus.

Shakes head. Not even a smidgin of common sense.:)

Arklight

Proud Scots are ready to open their hearts and their wallets to independence.

Anything is better than the eternity of Tory governments England wants.

antrobus

Arklight wrote: »

Proud Scots are ready to open their hearts and their wallets to independence....

That's what I want to hear! We want to spend our £8.5 billion a year on something else.:)

Arklight wrote: »

Anything is better than the eternity of Tory governments England wants.

That's the spirit, Austerity is so much more palatable when it's delivered from Edinburgh rather than London.

islandannie

Arklight wrote: »

Proud Scots are ready to open their hearts and their wallets to independence.

Here we go with that often heard patriotic refrain from people with nothing to lose.


It's not at all strange that the middle class know exactly what's better for Scotland and that without any doubt is to remain in this excellent and productive union.