The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

Haven't you realised that independence votes are never "quick and opportunistic".

Even if a large percentage of Scots side with you, you best be prepared for years of disagreements from both sides.

I do think the EU would welcome an independent Scotland though, especially if you commit to a plan to adopt the Euro. That basket case currency needs all the PR it can get.

Once it's done it's done. There's not usually any way back once independence has been voted for. Disagreements are just normal everyday politics, and the SNP will splinter 100 different ways too.

The EU though has definitely fallen out of favour in some quarters given the Catalonia/Spain situation. Prominent indy supporters/groups etc are just sitting about twiddling thumbs, eating popcorn and getting into online twitter spats and fights with each other. The SNP are being extremely quiet also.

However, the one thing Sturgeon never, ever goes back on are promises to Scots voters that they'll have the final word on their own futures. Her assertation that Scots residents will get a vote the same as the rest of the EU ( ratification ) once the details of Brexit are known, will happen sooner or later.

Is just a shame your lot still don't have any idea what you're doing with Brexit. Nobody in No 10 has a scooby doo what's going on or what to do and neither does Corbyn. So the SNP, indy groups, the Scottish Greens and everyone else is Scotland is just having to wait it out till we're given a vague hint as to what it is exactly you want from a Brexit deal.

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Is just a shame your lot still don't have any idea what you're doing with Brexit. Nobody in No 10 has a scooby doo what's going on or what to do and neither does Corbyn. So the SNP, indy groups, the Scottish Greens and everyone else is Scotland is just having to wait it out till we're given a vague hint as to what it is exactly you want from a Brexit deal.

Meanwhile Nicola heads for China.........

kabayiri

Shakethedisease wrote: »

...
Is just a shame your lot still don't have any idea what you're doing with Brexit. Nobody in No 10 has a scooby doo what's going on or what to do and neither does Corbyn. So the SNP, indy groups, the Scottish Greens and everyone else is Scotland is just having to wait it out till we're given a vague hint as to what it is exactly you want from a Brexit deal.

Of course they know what is happening. They are making sure time runs out, leaving an eleventh hour solution as the only viable option.

It will involve lots of fudgery; hardly anyone will like it; but in years to come we will just treat it as an event that happened.

Nicola and the SNPs wont want to be painted as the bad guys who stopped a Brexit 'deal' being signed off.

.string.

Meanwhile the clock us ticking for the next Scottish Election

Thrugelmir

.string. wrote: »

Meanwhile the clock us ticking for the next Scottish Election

With the economy somewhat underperforming..........

.string.

Thrugelmir wrote: »

With the economy somewhat underperforming..........

Reading through this report

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/04/scottish-economy-performed-half-uk-last-year/

.. it appears that blame and/or credit is claimed in all directions. But at the moment it is indeed the case that economic management in Scotland's lags.

foxtrotoscar_2

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Once it's done it's done. There's not usually any way back once independence has been voted for. Disagreements are just normal everyday politics, and the SNP will splinter 100 different ways too.

The EU though has definitely fallen out of favour in some quarters given the Catalonia/Spain situation. Prominent indy supporters/groups etc are just sitting about twiddling thumbs, eating popcorn and getting into online twitter spats and fights with each other. The SNP are being extremely quiet also.

However, the one thing Sturgeon never, ever goes back on are promises to Scots voters that they'll have the final word on their own futures. Her assertation that Scots residents will get a vote the same as the rest of the EU ( ratification ) once the details of Brexit are known, will happen sooner or later.

Is just a shame your lot still don't have any idea what you're doing with Brexit. Nobody in No 10 has a scooby doo what's going on or what to do and neither does Corbyn. So the SNP, indy groups, the Scottish Greens and everyone else is Scotland is just having to wait it out till we're given a vague hint as to what it is exactly you want from a Brexit deal.

Remind me exactly why you started this thread when one already existed?

Shakethedisease

Wonderful speech by Mike Russell and well done to the Scottish Greens, Labour and Lib Dems for getting behind the SNP in protecting the Scottish Parliament, and a rewriting of the Scotland Act without Holyrood's consent in order to institute a Brexit Scotland didn't vote for.

"If after tonights vote the UK Government move to force on this Parliament an arrangement for restricting devolution that does not have Parliaments consent they will do so in the full knowledge that they are breaking the twenty year old devolution settlement and operating out with the agreed constitution.
Those are actions that will be noted here and across Europe.

Presiding Officer, Donald Dewar began his speech on the 1st of July by looking at the mace that was in front of him then and is in front of us now. It has inscribed on it the first words of our founding statute "there shall be a Scottish Parliament".


Twenty years ago they were words of aspiration; a statement of constitutional intent. Now, they words of constitutional reality; of resolve. There is a Scottish Parliament and its voice must be heard".

http://www.thenational.scot/news/16227315.READ__Mike_Russell_s_incredible_speech_in_defence_of_Scotland_s_parliament/

Pretty decisive vote. The Tories will take it forward anyway, but at great political cost in Scotland. When Scottish Labour are holding their noses and voting with the SNP you know feelings are running strong.

The Scottish Parliament has voted to refuse consent to key UK Brexit legislation in an unprecedented move.

MSPs from the SNP, Labour, the Greens and the Liberal Democrats united to back a Scottish Government motion withholding parliamentary consent for the EU Withdrawal Bill.
Only the Scottish Conservatives voted against it and backed UK ministers.

https://stv.tv/news/politics/1415127-msps-refuse-to-give-consent-to-key-uk-brexit-legislation/

antrobus

Interesting recent story on Scotland and fracking.

As some of you might know, Scotland banned fracking in 2017.

The Scottish government has banned fracking after a consultation found overwhelming public opposition and little economic justification for the industry

Scottish government bans fracking after public opposition
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/03/scottish-government-bans-fracking-scotland-paul-wheelhouse

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon later stood up at a SNP conference to announce that "fracking is now banned in Scotland".

That's all very clear and straightforward you would think. Apparently not. Ineos (a big manufacturer of chemicals and oil products) decided to challenge the ban on the basis that it was illegal.

When the matter actually got before the Court of Session everyone was astonished to find that James Mure QC, acting for the Scottish government ,admitted that 'the ministerial statements about an "effective ban" were nothing more than PR "gloss"', adding that they adopted the "language of a press statement". He further admitted that the Scottish government,

have not yet adopted a position. Any position which the government will take has to undergo an environmental and strategic assessment. The court should therefore allow the policy-making process to go to finalisation which is expected in October this year.

So not only have the Scottish government not banned fracking they haven't even made up their flippin minds about it yet.

I must admit, I have a lowish opinion of politicians and generally expect them to be "economical with the actualit!", but really, doesn't this just take the biscuit? Or perhaps more accurately the entire annual biscuit production of McVitie's?

Businesses in Scotland are now in the strange position, that when a Scottish minister, or indeed the First Minister herself, makes a statement as to what is or is not legal in Scotland, it's a toss up whether or not they're telling the truth or whether or not its just a PR stunt. It's apparently even possible that they haven't even made a decision at all. The only way to be sure apparently is to take the little blighters to court.

I don't know what the practical implications of all this will be. But it is bl00dy funny though, if not downright hilarious. I've never known any UK government or administration make such a pigs ear of something so simple and straightforward.

P.S. Isn't misleading parliament a no-no in Scotland? It's supposed to be. It's in the Scottish Ministerial Code. It is of paramount importance that Ministers give accurate and truthful information to the Parliament, correcting any inadvertent error at the earliest opportunity. Ministers who knowingly mislead the Parliament will be expected to offer their resignation to the First Minister". Will Paul Wheelhouse and Nicola Sturgeon do the decent thing and resign?

Scottish Ministerial Code
http://www.gov.scot/resource/doc/276226/0082926.pdf

Shakethedisease

antrobus wrote: »

Interesting recent story on Scotland and fracking.

As some of you might know, Scotland banned fracking in 2017.

The Scottish government has banned fracking after a consultation found overwhelming public opposition and little economic justification for the industry

Scottish government bans fracking after public opposition
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/03/scottish-government-bans-fracking-scotland-paul-wheelhouse

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon later stood up at a SNP conference to announce that "fracking is now banned in Scotland".

That's all very clear and straightforward you would think. Apparently not. Ineos (a big manufacturer of chemicals and oil products) decided to challenge the ban on the basis that it was illegal.

When the matter actually got before the Court of Session everyone was astonished to find that James Mure QC, acting for the Scottish government ,admitted that 'the ministerial statements about an "effective ban" were nothing more than PR "gloss"', adding that they adopted the "language of a press statement". He further admitted that the Scottish government,

have not yet adopted a position. Any position which the government will take has to undergo an environmental and strategic assessment. The court should therefore allow the policy-making process to go to finalisation which is expected in October this year.

So not only have the Scottish government not banned fracking they haven't even made up their flippin minds about it yet.

I must admit, I have a lowish opinion of politicians and generally expect them to be "economical with the actualit!", but really, doesn't this just take the biscuit? Or perhaps more accurately the entire annual biscuit production of McVitie's?

Businesses in Scotland are now in the strange position, that when a Scottish minister, or indeed the First Minister herself, makes a statement as to what is or is not legal in Scotland, it's a toss up whether or not they're telling the truth or whether or not its just a PR stunt. It's apparently even possible that they haven't even made a decision at all. The only way to be sure apparently is to take the little blighters to court.

I don't know what the practical implications of all this will be. But it is bl00dy funny though, if not downright hilarious. I've never known any UK government or administration make such a pigs ear of something so simple and straightforward.

P.S. Isn't misleading parliament a no-no in Scotland? It's supposed to be. It's in the Scottish Ministerial Code. It is of paramount importance that Ministers give accurate and truthful information to the Parliament, correcting any inadvertent error at the earliest opportunity. Ministers who knowingly mislead the Parliament will be expected to offer their resignation to the First Minister". Will Paul Wheelhouse and Nicola Sturgeon do the decent thing and resign?

Scottish Ministerial Code
http://www.gov.scot/resource/doc/276226/0082926.pdf

Oh I remember how this story goes ! There was a Scottish Labour and Green party shouting till their little faces were blue for an effective ban ( a moratorium until studies were concluded ) wasn't good enough. The SNP warned that turning the moratorium into an official 'ban' would invite legal action from Ineos, and that's why it hadn't been done. I posted about it loads of times here I remember.

Aaaaaand voila. As soon as the moratorium is announced as over and an effective ban announced.. there's legal action from Ineos and the Scottish Green and Labour party are now hopping mad about the legal action they were warned would happen.
Par for the course in recent Scottish politics. Fracking will never happen in Scotland though. Feelings about it run too high also and it's electoral suicide for any party seen as too supportive.

The SNP have very wide and vocal public support on any 'effective ban', real legal ban, or even just a fudged ban so as long as it doesn't happen on their watch folks will be happy enough.

ps did you see the march on 5th of May ? Biggest Indy march EVER even during the ref didn't get anything like those sort of numbers. Fabulous stuff and it's certainly frightened a few unionist columnists in the papers and elsewhere. Used to waxing lyrical about how 'no one want's another vote' and 'the movement is dying off'.... May 5th certainly put the wind up them lol.