The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

zagubov

antrobus wrote: »

Switzerland has signed up for free movement with the EEA.
AFAIK, they were arguing for an opt out but couldn't arrange one that suited them without losing funding for some key research they were sharing. Still with the UK's politicians I am sure we could do a better job of negotiating a super-duper deal! And in the case of Scotland joining they wouldn't be worried about a freedom of movement opt-out.

Switzerland might not be a member of the EEA, but it's relationship with the EEA is set out in some 100 or so separate agreements. F*** knows what the difference is. I'm not reading through a 100 agreements to find out.
Well I wouldn't want to impose such an onerous task to any poster


EFTA membership does not "offer the right to EEA membership". It offers the right to apply for EEA membership.
That's a good point
Applications can be rejected.:)
They don't seem to want to set such a precedent, judging by the 100% acceptance rate




Croatia became a member of the EU in 2013. I didn't become a member of the EEA until 2014, because Norway wouldn't let them sign up until it got a bigger fish quota. What it says on the paper of that Lisbon Treaty does actually matter.

Yes, the EFTA states ratify things individually so they may want to discuss individual issues


Your checking isn't up to much.:)

Here are the Ratification Details for the Agreement on the participation of the Republic of Croatia in the European Economic Area. (All the EEA members are listed. Even Liechenstein.)

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/documents-publications/treaties-agreements/agreement/?id=2014013

P.S. This is all a bit Groundhog Day, really, because, I KNOW I HAVE EXPLAINED THIS ALL BEFORE.
We discussed this in February. At the time the treaty was ratified collectively by the EU countries but they had not all officially notified this yet, although I see that some more have added notification dates sinc ewe last discussed this

But nobody listens. I should really be getting paid for this. It's a public service.:)

You really have done good research here and in your earlier post, and don't think we don't appreciate you!:beer:

antrobus wrote: »

Actually, now I come to think of it, NATO membership has s0d all to with the EU. It's not a requirement. Sweden, Austria, Cyprus, Finland, Ireland and Malta are not NATO members.

There have been rumours that the EU might evolve an army to be an arm of or even a replacement for NATO. Can't see Switzerland signing up for that; look how long it took for it to agree to join the UN!

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

antrobus wrote: »

Signing up to the EEA means that you have to sign up to the four freedoms, including freedom of movement..

We have no problem with that.

We voted overwhelmingly to stay in the EU, 4 freedoms and all, and it's an official Scottish Government position that Scotland needs to increase immigration from current levels.

antrobus

zagubov wrote: »

...

There have been rumours that the EU might evolve an army to be an arm of or even a replacement for NATO. Can't see Switzerland signing up for that; look how long it took for it to agree to join the UN!

Switzerland isn't in the EU.

There is indeed a plan to establish a European army. Apparently the UK, together with Denmark, Ireland, Malta, and Portugal have decided not to participate.

https://euobserver.com/foreign/139854

It's part of the EU's common security and defence policy

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Consolidated_version_of_the_Treaty_on_European_Union/Title_V:_General_Provisions_on_the_Union%27s_External_Action_Service_and_Specific_Provisions_on_the_Common_Foreign_and_Security_Policy#SECTION_2:_PROVISIONS_ON_THE_COMMON_SECURITY_AND_DEFENCE_POLICY

I don't believe it's intended to replace NATO. The USA has the nukes.:)

antrobus

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

We have no problem with that.

We voted overwhelmingly to stay in the EU, 4 freedoms and all, and it's an official Scottish Government position that Scotland needs to increase immigration from current levels.

None of that matters.

If the UK does indeed leave the EU, so will Scotland. (Being part of the UK.)

A hypothetically independent Scotland might choose to apply to join the EU, or indeed EFTA, as routes into the EEA. But applications take time, particularly if you have an unsustainable deficit that needs sorting out as a priority.

loadsacash

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

We have no problem with that.

We voted overwhelmingly to stay in the EU, 4 freedoms and all, and it's an official Scottish Government position that Scotland needs to increase immigration from current levels.

To allow no Tuition fees toEnglish/Welsh students is a No Brainer.

Shakethedisease

03-10-2016, 10:14 AM

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Devolved law is going to have to be rewritten at some point with either Brexit or this Great Repeal Bill. This will cause issues in both NI and Scotland and there is absolutely no point in going into denial that there won't be. Nor trying to downplay things like the Sewel convention or the Good Friday agreement as solely SNP grievances.

But I think Theresa May might have to deal with her own back benchers first.

I forgot Wales in this quote from Oct 2016. Been a long time coming, but here we are. Holyrood and the Welsh Assembly won't stand for Westminster taking powers back without their consent. Fishing/Agriculture etc have been devolved since the beginning and Scotland lands 60% of UK's fish. There was never any danger of the Scottish Govt handing the powers back to Westminster without a huge row.

27th Feb 2018

It amounts to a veto over how the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh and Northern Ireland assemblies can exercise their powers, she told the BBC.
Ms Sturgeon said it was "very likely" the Scottish parliament will not give consent for the EU Withdrawal Bill unless the UK government changes its mind.
The move would not amount to a veto of Brexit, but would make things extremely difficult politically for the prime minister.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-43206967

Westminster could ram it through I suppose. But at great political cost. Everything Brexitwise seems to be coming to a head now isn't it ( not just devolved parliaments).

LHW99

I forgot Wales in this quote from Oct 2016. Been a long time coming, but here we are. Holyrood and the Welsh Assembly won't stand for Westminster taking powers back without their consent. Fishing/Agriculture etc have been devolved since the beginning and Scotland lands 60% of UK's fish. There was never any danger of the Scottish Govt handing the powers back to Westminster without a huge row.

So devolved, but (presumably) at the moment subject to EU laws / approval, otherwise there wouldn't be any possibility of them being included in the things being returned to the UK (as a whole) after Brexit.
Therefore (again presumably) at the moment there is some limit in practise as to how the Scottish Parliament can exercise power to change things. Therefore if the regional parts of those powers go straight back to Scotland, rather than at least initially to the whole of the UK, Scotland is hoping to end up with additional devolved powers, not currently residing with the Parliament.
If Scotland would like independence, so they could then give that independence back to the EU - they would also plan to hand control of those policies in a large part of the UK over to the EU again?

Shakethedisease

LHW99 wrote: »

So devolved, but (presumably) at the moment subject to EU laws / approval, otherwise there wouldn't be any possibility of them being included in the things being returned to the UK (as a whole) after Brexit.
Therefore (again presumably) at the moment there is some limit in practise as to how the Scottish Parliament can exercise power to change things. Therefore if the regional parts of those powers go straight back to Scotland, rather than at least initially to the whole of the UK, Scotland is hoping to end up with additional devolved powers, not currently residing with the Parliament.
If Scotland would like independence, so they could then give that independence back to the EU - they would also plan to hand control of those policies in a large part of the UK over to the EU again?

Not just Scotland, but ( Labour run ) Wales as well. These powers are already devolved, Westminster wants to take them back without consent undermining the entire point of devolution. It's not a question of powers returning to the Uk 'as a whole', these powers have been devolved since the inception of Holyrood and the other devolved equivalents. It's the undermining of the devolution settlements that is in essence the problem here. Nothing to do handing powers back to the EU or whatever.

Both parliaments have just published their bills. The Welsh Presiding officer deeming it within Welsh Assembly competence, as well as the Lord Advocate of Scotland... the Scottish Presiding officer ( Labour ) however is saying not. He's a signatory of 'Scotland in Union' so there is going to be a bit of a row over this. The Scottish Govt, along with the Welsh are pressing ahead anyway.

Wales and Scotland today... the NI question and the EU tomorrow. We're not a very United Kingdom at the moment eh.

LHW99

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Not just Scotland, but ( Labour run ) Wales as well. These powers are already devolved, Westminster wants to take them back without consent undermining the entire point of devolution. It's not a question of powers returning to the Uk 'as a whole', these powers have been devolved since the inception of Holyrood and the other devolved equivalents. It's the undermining of the devolution settlements that is in essence the problem here. Nothing to do handing powers back to the EU or whatever.

Both parliaments have just published their bills. The Welsh Presiding officer deeming it within Welsh Assembly competence, as well as the Lord Advocate of Scotland... the Scottish Presiding officer ( Labour ) however is saying not. He's a signatory of 'Scotland in Union' so there is going to be a bit of a row over this. The Scottish Govt, along with the Welsh are pressing ahead anyway.

Wales and Scotland today... the NI question and the EU tomorrow. We're not a very United Kingdom at the moment eh.

I understand both devolved administrations have taken this position. However, if the powers are devolved now, they can't be with the EU. If they will be repatriated from the EU then I can't see how they are now actually devolved.

WRT the un-unitedness of the UK (or not) it really would have been sensible IMO to have made a UK wide decalaration of the referendum result instead of dividing it by constituencies / regions, since the effect was always going to be UK-wide, since the 2014 independence referendum went the way it did, and Wales NI have never chosen to look for independence.

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

We're not a very United Kingdom at the moment eh.

Has Sturgeon awoken from her slumbers. Now this something to pin another referendum on. How tedious.