The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

zagubov

Shakethedisease wrote: »

But it's a genuine poll and no one cares where Stu Campbell lives as long as his data is backed up, sourced and checkable. Don't make the mistake of playing the person rather than the ball.

You'd be surprised how many people claim to care which side of the Tweed Stu lives.

And how few of them realise how creepy that is. :eek:

kabayiri

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I don't know if you've missed it somehow... but Scotland is quite hilly with mountains. There's a lot of island things dotted about as well.

Outdated decades old infrastructure needs upgraded and improved to cope with modern standards and number of vehicles etc etc. Just like in London.

Exactly, so your call for referendum is premature I would suggest.

You need to milk the Brexit fervour to get even more capital out of London, because a newly independent Scotland is going to have to run a tight ship for a good few years.

In general, I don't see how any regions in the UK can compete with London/SE, given the current limitations. So, it's not just Scotland, it's just that you would have to compete when independent.

loadsacash

Scotland is leaving the EU whether we like it or not Scotland is leaving so if or when there is another referendum Scotland will have to rejoin the EU.

zagubov

loadsacash wrote: »

Scotland is leaving the EU whether we like it or not Scotland is leaving so if or when there is another referendum Scotland will have to rejoin the EU.

No need, join EFTA. Two birds, one stone.:beer:

antrobus

zagubov wrote: »

No need, join EFTA. Two birds, one stone.:beer:

What birds?

Joining the EEA aka the single market is the thing.

The only real differences between the EFTA/EEA option and the EU/EEA option, are that the former gives you no little say in the regulations, and that the latter gives you no choice, you have to join the EEA.

Those who think that the EFTA route is some kind of easy option are sadly deluded.

zagubov

antrobus wrote: »

What birds?

Joining the EEA aka the single market is the thing.

The only real differences between the EFTA/EEA option and the EU/EEA option, are that the former gives you no little say in the regulations, and that the latter gives you no choice, you have to join the EEA.

Those who think that the EFTA route is some kind of easy option are sadly deluded.

It has less baggage regarding compulsory euro adoption/currency sharing, freedom of movement, NATO membership, fiscal alignment, and oh yes, needing unanimous agreement for entry. Plus paying less while doing so. And having the option to prepare for EU membership if so desired (it worked that way for the UK/Finland etc.).

I would suggest that EFTA may be a sweet spot for Scotland or, for that matter, the UK, if it was allowed back in.

antrobus

zagubov wrote: »

It has less baggage regarding compulsory euro adoption/currency sharing, freedom of movement, NATO membership, fiscal alignment, and oh yes, needing unanimous agreement for entry. Plus paying less while doing so.

And having the option to prepare for EU membership if so desired (it worked that way for the UK/Finland etc.).

I would suggest that EFTA may be a sweet spot for Scotland or, for that matter, the UK, if it was allowed back in.

Joining the EEA requires unanimous agreement from the other members irrespective of whether you apply via EFTA or the EU. Signing up to the EEA means that you have to sign up to the four freedoms, including freedom of movement..

I don't think you quite understand what is involved here.

Where is this 'sweet spot'? What are the benefits of EFTA membership without EEA membership?

zagubov

antrobus wrote: »

Joining the EEA requires unanimous agreement from the other members irrespective of whether you apply via EFTA or the EU. Signing up to the EEA means that you have to sign up to the four freedoms, including freedom of movement..

I don't think you quite understand what is involved here.

Where is this 'sweet spot'? What are the benefits of EFTA membership without EEA membership?

EFTA without EEA doesn't require freedom of movement, which is why Switzerland didn't sign up for it. I wouldn't make freedom of movement an issue.
EFTA membership doesn't require EU approval but does offer the right to EEA membership.
EEA membership does (on paper) require unanimous agreement but this is decided collectively (in the EU) in addition to individually (amongst EFTA members). Last time I checked, Croatia joined the EEA but not sure lots of EU members such as the UK or Spain (amongst others) ever agreed to that.

antrobus

zagubov wrote: »

EFTA without EEA doesn't require freedom of movement, which is why Switzerland didn't sign up for it. I wouldn't make freedom of movement an issue....

Switzerland has signed up for free movement with the EEA.

Switzerland might not be a member of the EEA, but it's relationship with the EEA is set out in some 100 or so separate agreements. F*** knows what the difference is. I'm not reading through a 100 agreements to find out.

zagubov wrote: »

...
EFTA membership doesn't require EU approval but does offer the right to EEA membership.

EFTA membership does not "offer the right to EEA membership". It offers the right to apply for EEA membership. Applications can be rejected.:)

zagubov wrote: »

...
EEA membership does (on paper) require unanimous agreement but this is decided collectively (in the EU) in addition to individually (amongst EFTA members)...

Croatia became a member of the EU in 2013. I didn't become a member of the EEA until 2014, because Norway wouldn't let them sign up until it got a bigger fish quota. What it says on the paper of that Lisbon Treaty does actually matter.

zagubov wrote: »

...
Last time I checked, Croatia joined the EEA but not sure lots of EU members such as the UK or Spain (amongst others) ever agreed to that.

Your checking isn't up to much.:)

Here are the Ratification Details for the Agreement on the participation of the Republic of Croatia in the European Economic Area. (All the EEA members are listed. Even Liechenstein.)

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/documents-publications/treaties-agreements/agreement/?id=2014013

P.S. This is all a bit Groundhog Day, really, because, I KNOW I HAVE EXPLAINED THIS ALL BEFORE.

But nobody listens. I should really be getting paid for this. It's a public service.:)

antrobus

zagubov wrote: »

It has less baggage regarding compulsory euro adoption/currency sharing, freedom of movement, NATO membership, ...

Actually, now I come to think of it, NATO membership has s0d all to with the EU. It's not a requirement. Sweden, Austria, Cyprus, Finland, Ireland and Malta are not NATO members.