The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Thrugelmir

mayonnaise wrote: »

Jeez. The guy is having a complimentary glass of bubbly in BA lounge, that's all. What does he need to do to "understand the meaning of the word austerity"?? Bring his own Pot Noodles and can of Irn Bru?
Anyway, it's Laurent-Perrier. You know, the cheap stuff.

I flew to Rome last week. My BA lounge at T5 looked nothing like that. Nor was I offered champagne.

antrobus

mayonnaise wrote: »

Jeez. The guy is having a complimentary glass of bubbly in BA lounge, that's all. What does he need to do to "understand the meaning of the word austerity"?? Bring his own Pot Noodles and can of Irn Bru?
Anyway, it's Laurent-Perrier. You know, the cheap stuff.

Pot noodles are made in Wales. Wouldn't that at least by a gesture of celtic solidarity?

Arklight

At least Alex walked Indy and tried to do something about it. Unlike that twit with the stupid Wings over Scotland website that he runs from his comfortable home in the most comfortable part of Middle England, Bath.

cogito

antrobus wrote: »

Good Health in Irish Gaelic. Paul Staines's mother was Irish.

Slàinte In Scottish Gaelic to be strictly accurate but you would expect a true Scot like shakey to know that. Maybe she’s not a true Scot after all.

antrobus

Arklight wrote: »

At least Alex walked Indy and tried to do something about it. Unlike that twit with the stupid Wings over Scotland website that he runs from his comfortable home in the most comfortable part of Middle England, Bath.

Say it ain't so! The Shakey one has cited Wings over Scotland as a 'source'.:)

Of course, with a name like Stuart Campbell, presumably he is Scottish. Or at least regards himself as such. But he does live in Bath, and he is suing Dugdale for defamation.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/nov/01/wings-over-scotland-blogger-cleared-over-online-harassment-claims

antrobus

cogito wrote: »

Slàinte In Scottish Gaelic to be strictly accurate but you would expect a true Scot like shakey to know that. Maybe she’s not a true Scot after all.

You might well be right. I think something on Google told me it was Irish Gaelic, which made sense given that Staines is half Irish. I have no idea as to how close the two languages are.

Of course, the linguistic origins of Scots, true or otherwise, is quite varied. Gaelic was spoken by highlanders. Who were widely regarded in days gone by as uncouth barbarians by the softy southerners who spoke English or a variant of Welsh.:)

Shakethedisease

antrobus wrote: »

Your opinion on the likely outcome of the Brexit negotiations is noted. But Scotland is not a 'EU state' or any kind of state.

The UK has not been part of EFTA since 1972.

I have made no predictions regarding the likely outcome of the Brexit negotiations.

Scotland is not independent.

Previously you were claiming that this 'vote' was supposed to be about independence, but now it's about "asking for a transition phase"? Given that this vote is supposed to be held in 'spring 2019', what would be the point in "asking for a transition phase" if Brexit is already done and dusted?

I beg to differ.:)

That's right. If you, or any body else for that matter, keeps posting nonsense, I may well point out that it is nonsense. Sorry about that.

If the UK does indeed leave the EU on the 19th March 2019, then obviously it will also leave the EEA. Since under Article 126 only EFTA and EU member states can be part of the EEA.

Scotland is not independent. If it ever becomes independent, it can apply to join the EU, It seems as if the application process takes a few years. At least it has done so in the past.

EFTA/EEA

You keep debating on the premise of Scotland both being independent and then not when it suits you. So just to be clear from my perspective. AFTER a hypothetical Yes vote what happens next depends on what is happening with Brexit.

If the UK goes for a transition/implementation phase and yet is out of the EU in March 19. Scotland will of course as part of the UK also be included in that transition/implementation phase. Once rUK makes to leave the Single Market behind, Scotland ( hypothetical Yes vote ) will stay in the transition/implementation phase.

If the UK leaves suddenly with no deal, the Scottish Govt will quickly organise a vote/referendum. After which ( hypothetical Yes vote) they will ask to either remain in the Single Market as per their 'Scotland in Europe' proposals put to May in Dec last year. And to nominally apply to EFTA etc - while in reality staying in.

Scotland has those very large fishing grounds remember. There's no real sensible reason to block or delay Scotland from minimal disruption to access to the Single Market. Certainly not when there are so many Single market members want access to Scotland's fishing waters.

Anyway, folks are getting twitchy about no deal. Both of these MP's had previously stated that they wanted to wait till after 2021 for a fresh mandate.

Last night Sheppard confirmed to The National a second referendum might be needed earlier than he had thought. He said: “The timescale of a second referendum will depend on how catastrophic things are. If things take a nosedive, we might want to do it quite quickly.”

Pete Wishart :-

But my view has always been that when people start to feel the experience and impact of Brexit that is the optimum time, and that might be sooner than we anticipate given there is every real possibility that talks collapse, people see how perilous Brexit is, and by then the lifeboat of independence referendum is an option we should deploy.”

http://www.thenational.scot/news/15669342.Second_indyref_moves_closer____/

Both singing from the same sheet at the same time, as was Salmond last week. Take note.

Shakethedisease

antrobus wrote: »

Say it ain't so! The Shakey one has cited Wings over Scotland as a 'source'.:)

Of course, with a name like Stuart Campbell, presumably he is Scottish. Or at least regards himself as such. But he does live in Bath, and he is suing Dugdale for defamation.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/nov/01/wings-over-scotland-blogger-cleared-over-online-harassment-claims

Goodness me. You're years behind everyone else with this stuff. I rarely use Wings over Scotland as a source, there's no point on here as I learnt round about 2013. Folks just discount the piece then start rabbiting on about Bath and the blogger himself rather than the issues and points raised. Not worth reading the repetition of the same old pearl clutching faux outrage.

Am sure Kezia will have plenty of cash from her stint in 'I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here'.

As for this

Slàinte In Scottish Gaelic to be strictly accurate but you would expect a true Scot like shakey to know that. Maybe she’s not a true Scot after all.

Seriously cognito ? I was pointing out the shallow means nothing context of the in the face of an in-depth discussion on LBGT rights and then an interview with the Catalonian President filmed in a hidden location in Belgium. Not that I didn't know what the tweets meant. :rotfl:

Like I said if that's all Staines had to complain about the show must've done something right.

antrobus

Shakethedisease wrote: »

EFTA/EEA

You keep debating on the premise of Scotland both being independent and then not when it suits you.

Good grief! That's what you keep doing. I have made it very clear that an independent Scotland can apply to join EFTA/EEA if it so pleases. But until it is independent it cannot according to Article 126.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

..
So just to be clear from my perspective. AFTER a hypothetical Yes vote what happens next depends on what is happening with Brexit.

A hypothetical "some kind of vote" in spring 2019 - it's an engineered Holyrood election isn't it? - isn't a legal referendum. If it produces the 'right result' it might persuade whoever is running the UK at the time that there should be another referendum. But until there is, and that produces the 'right result', and the independence negotiations have been completed and agree, Scotland will remain part of the UK.

And what might be happening with Brexit might already be decided.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

..
If the UK goes for a transition/implementation phase and yet is out of the EU in March 19. Scotland will of course as part of the UK also be included in that transition/implementation phase. Once rUK makes to leave the Single Market behind, Scotland ( hypothetical Yes vote ) will stay in the transition/implementation phase.

Obviously. Scotland is part of the UK.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

..

If the UK leaves suddenly with no deal, the Scottish Govt will quickly organise a vote/referendum. After which ( hypothetical Yes vote) they will ask to either remain in the Single Market as per their 'Scotland in Europe' proposals put to May in Dec last year.

If the "UK leaves suddenly with no deal", then Scotland will have left with no deal as well. Who is the Scottish government going to ask? There would be naff all the UK government could do about it.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

....
And to nominally apply to EFTA etc - while in reality staying in.

How do you "nominally apply"? Just asking.

Anyway, Norway and Iceland have already made it clear that Scotland would have to be an independent country for an EFTA application to be considered.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/11/norwegians-reject-nicola-sturgeons-norway-plan-stay-single-market/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/16/iceland-scotland-could-not-start-applying-efta-independence/

In any event, foreign policy and trade and industry are reserved powers. The devolved Scottish government has no legal authority to enter into trade deals.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

....
Scotland has those very large fishing grounds remember. There's no real sensible reason to block or delay Scotland from minimal disruption to access to the Single Market. Certainly not when there are so many Single market members want access to Scotland's fishing waters.

The EEA (single market) has nothing to do with fishing grounds.That's the Common Fisheries Policy, which is an EU thing. Your apparent preference is for this hypothetical independent Scotland to go down the EFTA/EEA route, which would not grant single market members access.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

....
Anyway, folks are getting twitchy about no deal. Both of these MP's had previously stated that they wanted to wait till after 2021 for a fresh mandate.Pete Wishart :- http://www.thenational.scot/news/15669342.Second_indyref_moves_closer____/

Both singing from the same sheet at the same time, as was Salmond last week. Take note.

I'm sure they are. I make no predictions regarding the Brexit negotiations.

Shakethedisease

antrobus wrote: »

Good grief! That's what you keep doing. I have made it very clear that an independent Scotland can apply to join EFTA/EEA if it so pleases. But until it is independent it cannot according to Article 126.

Blimey. Do you really think for the last five or six years I've been basing all my posts, including those regarding the EU/Brexit etc on a Scotland which is still in the UK ? How strange ?

Of course I don't need you to tell me that Scotland able to choose it's own future when independent. For clarity I can tell you that I AM talking about Scotland being independent when I mention EEA/EFTA/Brexit and the EU.

A hypothetical "some kind of vote" in spring 2019 - it's an engineered Holyrood election isn't it? - isn't a legal referendum. If it produces the 'right result' it might persuade whoever is running the UK at the time that there should be another referendum. But until there is, and that produces the 'right result', and the independence negotiations have been completed and agree, Scotland will remain part of the UK.

Antrobus, take a breath. I'm simply pointing out that over the last few weeks notable MP's, MSP's and ex First Ministers all seem to have been sending kite's up. All of them starting to murmur and appear in various media outlets talking about very quick referendums and Holyrood mandates if there's no deal. You and I both know it's no coincidence and they're preparing the groundwork. The SNP run too tight a ship for that.

And what might be happening with Brexit might already be decided.

Obviously. Scotland is part of the UK.

If the "UK leaves suddenly with no deal", then Scotland will have left with no deal as well. Who is the Scottish government going to ask? There would be naff all the UK government could do about it.

How do you "nominally apply"? Just asking.

Anyway, Norway and Iceland have already made it clear that Scotland would have to be an independent country for an EFTA application to be considered.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/11/norwegians-reject-nicola-sturgeons-norway-plan-stay-single-market/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/16/iceland-scotland-could-not-start-applying-efta-independence/

In any event, foreign policy and trade and industry are reserved powers. The devolved Scottish government has no legal authority to enter into trade deals.

The EEA (single market) has nothing to do with fishing grounds.That's the Common Fisheries Policy, which is an EU thing. Your apparent preference is for this hypothetical independent Scotland to go down the EFTA/EEA route, which would not grant single market members access.

I'm sure they are. I make no predictions regarding the Brexit negotiations.

Re Norway and Iceland. Again I cannot think why you are under the impression when I post that I'm posting about a Scotland within a UK context ? Once Scotland IS independent then none of the above waffle applies apart from maybe having to apply to EFTA etc. The difficulties are going to be in the transitional state but once more I have to point out that this isn't going to be the end result.. which ultimately will be an independent Scotland in EFTA. Trading with both the EU via the Single Market and a FTA with rUK.

Fishing grounds. Not talking about CFP. I'm talking about selling and processing the fish needing Single Market access. As Grimsby is now finding out.

Fishermen blighted by the Common Fisheries Policy were, and in some cases quite justifiably, annoyed by EU rules restricting fishing in British waters and voted out.

The seafood processing industry on the other hand, a sector which relies on the smooth flow of fresh imported produce from overseas for 90 per cent of what it turns into plate-ready food, benefits from the customs-light and free trade arrangements of the EU.

If being part of the single market and the customs union – allowing for seafood to be traded without tariffs or checks between EU member states – was such a good situation for business, why did the processing industry not say that more clearly during the referendum campaign?

There's a lot of fish and fishing grounds in Scotland too. fishermen and processing need the single market for quick selling on a cross border basis re fresh supply.

Buchan said nearly two-thirds of the fish caught by UK boats is destined for export markets, with over 70 per cent going to EU countries.
Meanwhile a “significant portion” is exported to other parts of the world under EU trade deals.

http://www.thenational.scot/news/15270732.Scottish_fishermen_must__wake_up__to_Brexit__warns_ex_skipper/