The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Shakethedisease

antrobus wrote: »

No, I'm busy tying you up in knots.
Your opinion is not 'news'.

I think this might be the problem. You're far too interested in me rather than debating the issues. I'm not doing GERS again you can search my posts for my views on it, they are well known.

Scotland after voting for independence will attempt to negotiate a deal whereby they remain in the Single Market via EFTA membership. Scotland won't be leaving along with rUK if there's an independence vote. Why would they ? Unfortunately you're confusing an intital transition/implementations phase with the end result.

No one is disputing there will be massive changes and challenges regarding Scotland staying in the Single Market etc while rUK leave ( same goes also if Scotland leaves along with the UK incidentally ). But you're trying to paint this phase as some sort of permanent situation when of course it won't be.

You also may ignore the vote/referendum issue also. But that won't stop one happening/ I've already mentioned permission via a section 30 ( already sought ) is something no one will be holding their breath for. There will be a big song and dance made about not getting permission in order to whip up a bit of angst against Westminster. But ultimately a vote will go ahead anyway.

Gibraltar, not a region of Spain. However when the UK leaves the Single Market will be leaving also which is going to cause some trouble with Spain<--- who it has to be said aren't over keen on geographical areas having much of a say in their own governance these days or self-determination.

Arklight

Shaka_Zulu wrote: »

Please translate?

I meant will a Labour government fend off independence. Or something.

antrobus

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I think this might be the problem. You're far too interested in me rather than debating the issues...

No, the problem is that you keep posting a load of old nonsense, factual inaccuracies, false quotes, etc and so forth. I'm not going to let you get away with it.:)

For example;

Shakethedisease wrote: »

...No one is disputing there will be massive changes and challenges regarding Scotland staying in the Single Market etc while rUK leave..

Why do you keep posting this claim?

Scotland cannot stay in the Single Market whilst the UK leaves.

Shakethedisease

antrobus wrote: »

No, the problem is that you keep posting a load of old nonsense, factual inaccuracies, false quotes, etc and so forth. I'm not going to let you get away with it.:)

For example;

Why do you keep posting this claim?

Scotland cannot stay in the Single Market whilst the UK leaves.

If you're going to get all high and mighty about taking folks down a peg or two you might start by actually reading their posts ? Just a suggestion. I posted this 'claim' because the Scottish Govt did and am confident their experts know more about it than you or I.

122. We recognise, of course, that developing a differentiated relationship to the European Single Market for Scotland raises technical, legal and political complexities and challenges. We seek to address each of these challenges later in this chapter. We do so by setting out in principle how each of these challenges could be overcome.

You can start by debunking this lot first re Scotland/Single Market etc. I posted it for your perusal a few pages back, but it seems you prefer playing to the gallery here like a big luvvie rather than really debating anything.

http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2016/12/9234/4

. If the UK chooses not to take this path we also set out how Scotland could maintain membership while the remainder of the UK leaves. We demonstrate that such a differentiated solution is based on a broad range of other practice from across the EU and we provide options to address the practicalities, including demonstrating how an invisible border for people and goods can be maintained between Scotland and the remainder of the UK.

The many problems listed in the paper are detailed largely as a result of Scotland still being in the UK. Most of them disappear if Scotland isn't.

So the next time you take centre stage and make sweeping statements about how Scotland CANNOT do something. Make sure you have the talent to back up your statements, or at least a few coherent sentences debunking govt papers that say Scotland can. You seem abnormally convinced that since GERS is a Scottish Govt paper that it MUST be 100% true. Yet are happy to state that their Scotland in Europe one is a load of b*******ks. Make up your mind.

Shakethedisease

Nice scoop for Salmond. Why haven't any of the mainstream agencies bothered with stuff like this. Loving the BBC's totally 'unbiased' coverage too.

...the former Scottish first minister and SNP leader, would be hosting a weekly show on RT, which has been described as a propaganda outlet for Vladimir Putin's government

:rotfl:

Salmond interviews Puigdemont on RT show

He then recited Robert Burns' famous line: "O wad some power the giftie gie us. To see oursels as ithers see us."
But it was Mr Puigdemont who was the star guest, with the former president telling Mr Salmond that there was an "an intellectual incapacity" on the part of the Spanish government "to admit the possibility, the real possibility, that Spain could be different in future".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-42010449


Salmond is now a private citizen not a politician and can do whatever he likes. You can all watch here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd4x_7ctOlI

Rinoa

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Nice scoop for Salmond. Why haven't any of the mainstream agencies bothered with stuff like this. Loving the BBC's totally 'unbiased' coverage too.:rotfl:

Just a few teething problems according to Guido:

Alex Salmond’s new RT show is suffering teething problems after it emerged that tweets read out on the programme were posted by a variety of dubious accounts, at least one of which is controlled by the show’s producers. Salmond said he had received an “avalanche” of tweets, but:

• A tweet asking “so why RT?” was first up, which the show claimed was sent in by @ellalorenR. No @ellalorenR account exists…
• The question “if you were Prime Minister would you stop Brexit?” was sent by @thegodfather12. This account, set up in 2009, has never tweeted before…
• @admrobrts asked “What does Slainte mean?”, regarding Salmond’s production company Slainte Media. Twitter shows it was posted at 11.08AM, more than three hours after it had been read out on the pre-recorded show…
• Finally, @lastjohn asked “When are you getting President Trump on your show?”@lastjohn is the private account of Luisa St John, an RT employee who appears in the credits as “Series Director”…

Good start…

Shakethedisease

Rinoa wrote: »

Just a few teething problems according to Guido:

If a couple of nothing tweets, I mean check out those hard hitting questions..What does Slainte mean?...at the beginning of the show is all Guido can come up with to complain about then Eck must be doing something right.

It's the interview with Puigdemont which is being picked up everywhere else ( not UK ) though in terms of viewing and news reporting. Teething problems like that will have them popping a few corks tonight I should imagine as well as a Thank You card to Guido for another boost to the viewing figures.

antrobus

Shakethedisease wrote: »

If you're going to get all high and mighty about taking folks down a peg or two you might start by actually reading their posts ? Just a suggestion. I posted this 'claim' because the Scottish Govt did and am confident their experts know more about it than you or I..

And I have posted statements from both EFTA members and the EU (complete with links) where they have stated that Scotland needs to be a state before a membership application can be considered. I have also posted quotes and links that state what the EEA treaty actually says.

Did you not read those posts? Shall we try again?


Article 126 of the Agreement on the EEA makes it clear that the EEA Agreement only applies to the territories of the EU, in addition to Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway. Under the present wording of the EEA Agreement, it is therefore impossible to be a party to the EEA Agreement without being a member of either the EU or EFTA.

According to Article 128 of the EEA Agreement, “any European State becoming a member of the Community shall, and the Swiss Confederation or any European State becoming a member of EFTA may, apply to become a party to this Agreement. It shall address its application to the EEA Council.”

The EEA Council takes political decisions leading to the amendment of the EEA Agreement, including the possible enlargement of the EEA. Decisions by the EEA Council are taken by consensus between the EU on the one hand and the three EEA EFTA States - Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway - on the other.

http://www.efta.int/faq

Shakethedisease wrote: »

You can start by debunking this lot first re Scotland/Single Market etc. I posted it for your perusal a few pages back, but it seems you prefer playing to the gallery here like a big luvvie rather than really debating anything. .

It has been debunked. See above.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

The many problems listed in the paper are detailed largely as a result of Scotland still being in the UK. Most of them disappear if Scotland isn't.

If and when Scotland becomes independent, it can apply to join EFTA or the EU as it sees fit.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

..

So the next time you take centre stage and make sweeping statements about how Scotland CANNOT do something. Make sure you have the talent to back up your statements, or at least a few coherent sentences debunking govt papers that say Scotland can.

You seem very keen to personalise this debate.

I am simply telling you what the EEA treaty says. Article 126 states that only European states can join the single market. Scotland is not a state.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

..
You seem abnormally convinced that since GERS is a Scottish Govt paper that it MUST be 100% true. Yet are happy to state that their Scotland in Europe one is a load of b*******ks. Make up your mind.

GERS is a national statistic.

I have never made any such statement regarding Scotland in Europe. Stop making things up.

Article 12+ of the EEA agreement says what it says.

antrobus

Shakethedisease wrote: »

If a couple of nothing tweets, I mean check out those hard hitting questions..What does Slainte mean?...

Good Health in Irish Gaelic. Paul Staines's mother was Irish.

Shaka_Zulu

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I posted this 'claim' because the Scottish Govt did and am confident their experts know more about it than you or I.

I think that is very debatable.

Alternatively they just don't bother listening to their experts.

May I submit Scottish Police and VAT as an example. Now they are running around begging to be give special dispensation from their VAT payments. Surely it might have been sensible to have the VAT issue sorted before implementation?