The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Yah_Boo_Sux

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Still waiting for that response to the statistics ISTL. And Shakey for that matter.

"Brexit consequences" hard to defend that when there's figures on it.

Spot on & don't hold your breath for anything with fact in the reply if you get one.

If you really need to try and justify your extreme stance and belligerent attitude by using your English family as supposed evidence, or deny that there is at least some hate promulgated from within the SNP when it has been proven is evidence enough for me of some trying to defend the indefensible.

Nothing new from my reading this thread. I gave up a few hundred pages in, shaking my head in disbelief at what amounts to nothing more than blind pro independence propaganda.

mollycat

Yah_Boo_Sux wrote: »

Spot on & don't hold your breath for anything with fact in the reply if you get one.

If you really need to try and justify your extreme stance and belligerent attitude by using your English family as supposed evidence, or deny that there is at least some hate promulgated from within the SNP when it has been proven is evidence enough for me of some trying to defend the indefensible.

Nothing new from my reading this thread. I gave up a few hundred pages in, shaking my head in disbelief at what amounts to nothing more than blind pro independence propaganda.

Spot on.

Nationalism is the politics of the scapegoat, dressed up as something somehow noble, to reel in the gullible.

If people are saying a divided, less tolerant Scotland is alien to them maybe it's because they are part of what's driving it.

Shakethedisease

sss555s wrote: »

Seriously string, I'm not sure how you get this knowledge of the horrible picture you paint of Scotland but I would advise you check the credibility of your sources.

There probably wont be any new news for a bit in here anyway.

SNP manifesto on Tuesday. No doubt all those who claim to have given up on this thread will surely not be bothered enough comment ( hopefully ).

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Still waiting for that response to the statistics ISTL. And Shakey for that matter.

"Brexit consequences" hard to defend that when there's figures on it.

Any Brexit consequences stats and figures are complete bunkum at the moment. Since we don't know what Brexit consequences will be until Sept 18.

There's nothing hard to defend, because there IS nothing to defend at the present time. However should those Brexit consequences mean very bad things for the UK, then Sturgeon holding an exit door firmly open for Scotland over the next 18 months would be very wise.

Should this mean another No vote ( not that I think there would be but one never knows ).. I think Sturgeon, as well as most of the SNP, would only be too happy to leave centre stage for a while and leave a policy free Davidson/Dugdale/Rennie deal with the full political and economic consequences of Brexit/Leaving the single market in Scotland as well as meekly handing powers back to Westminster and seeing how well that goes down.

I know that's what I would do. It's also why Sturgeon will go for broke with another vote. She has nothing much to lose after any hypothetical No vote.

Shakethedisease

Yah_Boo_Sux wrote: »

Spot on & don't hold your breath for anything with fact in the reply if you get one.

If you really need to try and justify your extreme stance and belligerent attitude by using your English family as supposed evidence, or deny that there is at least some hate promulgated from within the SNP when it has been proven is evidence enough for me of some trying to defend the indefensible.

Nothing new from my reading this thread. I gave up a few hundred pages in, shaking my head in disbelief at what amounts to nothing more than blind pro independence propaganda.

You very obviously and patently haven't given up on this thread. Since you are still posting in it.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Any Brexit consequences stats and figures are complete bunkum at the moment. Since we don't know what Brexit consequences will be until Sept 18.

There's nothing hard to defend, because there IS nothing to defend at the present time. However should those Brexit consequences mean very bad things for the UK, then Sturgeon holding an exit door firmly open for Scotland over the next 18 months would be very wise.

Should this mean another No vote ( not that I think there would be but one never knows ).. I think Sturgeon, as well as most of the SNP, would only be too happy to leave centre stage for a while and leave a policy free Davidson/Dugdale/Rennie deal with the full political and economic consequences of Brexit/Leaving the single market in Scotland as well as meekly handing powers back to Westminster and seeing how well that goes down.

I know that's what I would do. It's also why Sturgeon will go for broke with another vote. She has nothing much to lose after any hypothetical No vote.

But that's not true is it? As I said we're aware as a nation of the worst case scenarios. The proportional hit that the UK takes as a result of the worst Brexit is nearly 3 times smaller than that of an independent Scotland based on the economic analyses. So.. what is the response? Independence is still good even though it risks 20% of Scottish jobs instead of Brexit which risks 4.6% of Scottish jobs and approx. 8% of overall UK jobs? Which is it chick?

I think you know I've got you lot banged to rights on this. That 500,000 stat is going to haunt the dream of Alba. You know it, I know it and so does everyone on this thread. If you ever get another referendum that's all the unionists need do. Shine a light on the areas you refuse to bring to the attention of others.

The only argument against this data is to disavow the data. If you disavow this data you also disavow the data on Brexit, your very own argument. The position you would be taking by refusing to acknowledge this data would be internally inconsistent and would allow others who disagree to completely refute your arguments that an independent Scotland is better for the people. So I would take care if you choose not to acknowledge the proportional jobs at risk at the Scottish and UK level from both independence and Brexit.

A good deal and all your fear mongering over Brexit disappears. You must accept that Scotland is small. A small population and a small economy by comparison to the rest of the UK. It's the proportional jobs hit that will make things hard for an independent Scotland. I can't wait to see the arguments against it. If there is a good deal then there's nothing to fear from Brexit. Either way the argument is going to evaporate and become toothless.

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

But that's not true is it? As I said we're aware as a nation of the worst case scenarios. The proportional hit that the UK takes as a result of the worst Brexit is nearly 3 times smaller than that of an independent Scotland based on the economic analyses. So.. what is the response? Independence is still good even though it risks 20% of Scottish jobs instead of Brexit which risks 4.6% of Scottish jobs and approx. 8% of overall UK jobs? Which is it chick?

EFTA/EEA, I've already answered this for you a million times.

I think you know I've got you lot banged to rights on this. That 500,000 stat is going to haunt the dream of Alba. You know it, I know it and so does everyone on this thread. If you ever get another referendum that's all the unionists need do. Shine a light on the areas you refuse to bring to the attention of others.

EFTA/EAA. I've already anwered this for you a million times.

The only argument against this data is to disavow the data. If you disavow this data you also disavow the data on Brexit, your very own argument. The position you would be taking by refusing to acknowledge this data would be internally inconsistent and would allow others who disagree to completely refute your arguments that an independent Scotland is better for the people. So I would take care if you choose not to acknowledge the proportional jobs at risk at the Scottish and UK level from both independence and Brexit.

EFTA/EEA, I've already answered this for you a million times. Independence doesn't mean having to choose either or, Scotland can have both and mitigate the damage to Scotland re 1) the UK leaving the EU/Single Market and 2 ) Independence and trade with rUK.

You keep discounting the middle ground compromise option. Obviously because it's one you don't have a credible argument against, so rely instead on repeating ad nauseum this silly black and white/either it's this or that narrative in order to back up your points. Scotland can tread the middle ground here, but since May has ruled out any Scottish proposals advocating this.. then the only way forward to this middle ground is via another Scottish vote on the matter.

A good deal and all your fear mongering over Brexit disappears. You must accept that Scotland is small. A small population and a small economy by comparison to the rest of the UK. It's the proportional jobs hit that will make things hard for an independent Scotland. I can't wait to see the arguments against it. If there is a good deal then there's nothing to fear from Brexit. Either way the argument is going to evaporate and become toothless.

Tell it to Norway chick. You'd be laughed at so hard for the above paragraphs about Scotland being small with a small population :rotfl:. There are more than a few comparable small countries out there as far as Scotland is concerned inside and outside the EU. Most of them doing pretty well. Also none of them have to put up with the neighbouring parliament running their economy for them, then turning round in the next breath and blaming them for a crap economic performance either.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

EFTA/EEA, I've already answered this for you a million times.

EFTA/EAA. I've already anwered this for you a million times.

EFTA/EEA, I've already answered this for you a million times. Independence doesn't mean having to choose either or, Scotland can have both and mitigate the damage to Scotland re 1) the UK leaving the EU/Single Market and 2 ) Independence and trade with rUK.

You keep discounting the middle ground compromise option. Obviously because it's one you don't have a credible argument against, so rely instead on repeating ad nauseum this silly black and white/either it's this or that narrative in order to back up your points. Scotland can tread the middle ground here, but since May has ruled out any Scottish proposals advocating this.. then the only way forward to this middle ground is via another Scottish vote on the matter.

Tell it to Norway chick. You'd be laughed at so hard for the above paragraphs about Scotland being small with a small population :rotfl:. There are more than a few comparable small countries out there as far as Scotland is concerned inside and outside the EU. Most of them doing pretty well. Also none of them have to put up with the neighbouring parliament running their economy for them, then turning round in the next breath and blaming them for a crap economic performance either.

Sure.

A bad deal which as you keep telling us will happen will mean WTO terms if you're in the EU and completely new negotiations if you're in the EEA. The "middle ground" is not the solution you portray it as. Those negotiations to first separate the union and then the trading arrangements thereafter will impact on Scotland just as much.

A good deal and the lesser impact is leaving the single market as it is now as part if the UK.

The fact Scotland is a smaller economy means it is more susceptible to these issues than the UK will be. That's reality. Your only way out is to hope for EEA membership and good trade relations with the UK after getting in. Which puts Scotland behind a customs wall, a hard border and a new competitor for the UK to try to steal jobs and investment from. So you'll lose out anyway with your largest trading partner. There's no way out of the union without making Scotland less than it is now and will be as part of the UK. And that's a fact, an uncomfortable one for nationalists since your argument hinges on circumstances being better than the union but even the worst of the predictions for the UK economy are slight in proportion to what Scotland will experience in every situation except the absolute perfect separation. Which you hope for no doubt but won't get, and you know it.

elantan

https://twitter.com/JamieRoss7/status/868764222859206657



Mawah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ... och you have to laugh

Yah_Boo_Sux

elantan wrote: »

Mawah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ... och you have to laugh

Instead of twits (or is it supposed to be tweets?) this might stop your laughter in its tracks.

Scots voter disillusion as gloss comes off the SNP. Gap between ruling party’s aspiration and achievement clear in schools and hospitals

Ian Davidson, a former Labour MP in Glasgow now standing for a Borders seat, knows he has no chance of winning against the SNP on June 8. But he said the party’s fading gloss offers hope. “The Teflon coating that the SNP had is beginning to wear away,” Mr Davidson said, seeing a parallel with his own party. “Tony Blair was Teflon-coated for a period. But then, when he fell, he fell quite substantially.”

https://www.ft.com/content/a882a032-4213-11e7-9d56-25f963e998b2