The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

IveSeenTheLight

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

June 8th will be used to take the temperature of the electorate with regards to the independence question.

There is no getting away from that.

Whether you think it's right, wrong, inaccurate or whatever.

The reasons why it can and will be used have been trawled over many times. It appears to have gotten to the point where an individual is either in blind denial that it will be used in such a way or the individual is beating their head against a brick wall trying to demonstrate why it will to others. Those who support independence can not and will not accept or concede that June 8th will be a litmus test of independence amongst the electorate. It would be ideological suicide to hitch the wagon to that for them. Unfortunately the rest of the UK and over half of Scotland will see June 8th as a referendum on a new independence referendum.

Squeezing a section 30 through Holyrood by usurping the SGP manifesto pledges may have made the request to Westminster but it will be perfectly acceptable - and right - to deny the request if the outcome on June 8th is as damning as expected. Less than 45% (accounting for margin of error) and the show is over for the time being. Come 2021 I would also expect to see further inroads made into the SNP bloc, possibly a pragmatic leadership of a unionist coalition or support agreement to lock out the nationalists and the death (perhaps temporarily) of the independence question.

Im not in blind denial, indeed I believe I already clarified this.

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

I agree it can and will be used, but will be argued against.

The mandate is there.
The democratic vote by the electorate making SNP the majority party is there.
The democratice vote held in Holyrood is there.
Section 30 has been voted for and issued to Westminster.

You can't run away from or hide from those facts.

Westminster clearly are running scared and do not have the belief they would win IndyRef2

A_Medium_Size_Jock

A piece in the Graudian yesterday on the ONS regional breakdown of taxes and how it "clouds case for Scottish independence":

an independent Scotland would face hard choices. The deficit per head in Scotland was £2,824 last year, according to the ONS data. To reduce that figure as a standalone nation, taxes would have to rise or spending would have to fall, other factors being equal. That makes the currency question – one of the central debates in the 2014 referendum – critical.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/nils-pratley-on-finance/2017/may/23/london-uk-scotland-ons-brexit-scottish-independence


ETA - is somebody getting rattled?

IveSeenTheLight

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

A piece in the Graudian yesterday on the ONS regional breakdown of taxes and how it "clouds case for Scottish independence":
https://www.theguardian.com/business/nils-pratley-on-finance/2017/may/23/london-uk-scotland-ons-brexit-scottish-independence


ETA - is somebody getting rattled?

The thing that strikes me about reports like these is that they assume all circumstances being equal.

Being Independent allows the opportunity to move in a different direction with the aim of growing the economy as opposed to necessarily raising taxes.

TrickyTree83

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

The thing that strikes me about reports like these is that they assume all circumstances being equal.

Being Independent allows the opportunity to move in a different direction with the aim of growing the economy as opposed to necessarily raising taxes.

Abandoning known established knowledge in favour of faith.

Scientology, creationists, flat Earthers and new to the group Scottish Nationalists!

beecher2

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

It would appear that the SNP are having some funding problems from big donors.
Is this further evidence of support on the wane?
In the first fortnight following the launch of the SNP's campaign fund in mid March which was meant to raise £100 million in 100 days, 71 days in and just £480,000 has been raised. Will this trend continue?


http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15304613.SNP_relying_on_public_funds_as_big_donors_dry_up/

The target is £1million, not £100 million.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

beecher2 wrote: »

The target is £1million, not £100 million.

Indeed, my error. Duly corrected.

IveSeenTheLight

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Abandoning known established knowledge in favour of faith.

Scientology, creationists, flat Earthers and new to the group Scottish Nationalists!

Lol, not at all.
What a ludicrous suggestion. Always to the extreme.

Can you deny that the article is based on current circumstances and does not consider the opportunity to diversify and change the economy?

Surely that is the best desirable option rather than accept status quo and simply raise taxes.

TrickyTree83

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Lol, not at all.
What a ludicrous suggestion. Always to the extreme.

Can you deny that the article is based on current circumstances and does not consider the opportunity to diversify and change the economy?

Surely that is the best desirable option rather than accept status quo and simply raise taxes.

Change the economy how?

It's not a ludicrous suggestion. The economic argument you're making is essentially a faith based ideology, like religion.

All you know is how it is right now, changes can occur but to know what changes, when and how is impossible, so its based purely on faith. Whereas the arguments against are based on present knowledge and data.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

The thing that strikes me about reports like these is that they assume all circumstances being equal.

Being Independent allows the opportunity to move in a different direction with the aim of growing the economy as opposed to necessarily raising taxes.

Does this opportunity not also relate to Brexit and the rUK leaving the EU?

IveSeenTheLight

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Does this opportunity not also relate to Bexit and the rUK leaving the EU?

Indeed it may.
Let's see what the negotiations outcome is and then vote for it.
I believe a substantial part the the UK would like this option too.