The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

sss555s

sss555s wrote: »

I wasn't quoting the ethics of the deal but if May actually had to be there.
It seems that she probably had to be there. The Saudis are massacring the Yemenis and need more arms to blast them to smithereens.
The UK has a long record of dodgy deals with Saudi (remember Mark Thatchers illegal arms deals?) and are hoping to shift a load to the Saudis after Obama put a halt to the arms deal they were negotiating with the Saudis (to "save Yemeni lives") just before Trump took over. Trump is trying to get the deal back on so May is over there under the share deal faux headline trying to swing the arms deal for the UK.
I suspect whoever comes up with the best arms deal will probably win the share deal which may be frustrating for Xavier Rolet being there.

Ethics! Let's not go there.

sss555s wrote: »

Do you honestly think May should be there trying to bag this deal?

cogito wrote: »

Of course she should. Anyone with more than one brain cell can see that.

Looks like Mays brain wasn't enough and Trump has sealed the deal on the £110bn arms deal. Does that mean they will get the shares deal too?

That is a massive loss and she should have have stuck to the day job and left it to a capable team instead of letting her ego take over.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Neither Wales, Scotland nor NI were happy about any of those talks and the lack of information they got during them. They were told and informed of nothing. Not even the Brexit triggering date. None of them were.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39331244

Are you now saying the meetings you said didn't take place actually did take place?

So they had the chance to tell the DFEEU what their expectations were and why?

Then that constitutes listening to the devolved administrations.

Shakethedisease

Yah_Boo_Sux wrote: »

Show me where I say that EU nations will not influence what kind of deal the UK gets?
As usual it looks like you are twisting what has been said.

So, I remind you by highlighting the relevant part of what you quote above and repeat it here: "the head of government speaks for the whole UK just as the designated negotiator supposedly speaks for the whole EU".

There is a vast difference between influencing and negotiating. If you are as unsure as your post suggests then I recommend the use of a dictionary.


Are you ignoring too that the remaining EU27 must vote on a Brexit agreement? Is that not influence, then?

BTW, you may if you wish copy and paste this for "Conrad and others to read and discuss". I'm sure they too will chuckle at your (failed) devious attempts at distortion.

Yeah but yeah but, the Germans will want to make sure their cars, the French their wine, the Spanish their tomato growers etc etc .... <--- These separate countries within a Union not losing particular trade interests is the sole premise in the Brexit thread behind the UK getting a good EU trade deal. So is that not true then ? Because Conrad and others in there keep saying it is ?

The UK is also a union, made up of four. Three of them with no input whatsoever. Neither before nor during negotiations. Whatever you want to call it, that's not the UK 'as a whole'.

Shakethedisease

A_Pict_In_A_Past_Life wrote: »

Maybe it's interpretation that is falling a little bit flat, because the Telegraph also very clearly says http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/19/theresa-may-could-waive-rights-95-per-cent-british-waters-brexit/

And the convention being mentioned earlier in the report saying
See?
It's all there, you just have to read it. Even if the Telegraph are trying to muddy the waters, so to speak.

Take it up with string. He keeps seeing the word SNP instead of the Telegraph when it comes to this report and fake news. I have no idea why.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Yeah but yeah but, the Germans will want to make sure their cars, the French their wine, the Spanish their tomato growers etc etc .... <--- These separate countries within a Union not losing particular trade interests is the sole premise in the Brexit thread behind the UK getting a good EU trade deal. So is that not true then ? Because Conrad and others in there keep saying it is ?

The UK is also a union, made up of four. Three of them with no input whatsoever. Neither before nor during negotiations. Whatever you want to call it, that's not the UK 'as a whole'.

Honestly the posts get more desperate.

Who pays German welfare?

Who pays British welfare?

Is Brussels a sovereign parliament?

I think you need to do some research on the constitutional arrangements if the EU vs the UK.

Have you been on the Trading Economics website as I explained in that thread? Have you seen the trading position of the EU net contributors with the UK?

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Yeah but yeah but, the Germans will want to make sure their cars, the French their wine, the Spanish their tomato growers etc etc .... <--- These separate countries within a Union not losing particular trade interests is the sole premise in the Brexit thread behind the UK getting a good EU trade deal. So is that not true then ?

What else is trade deal about other than trade. Unless you are politician and intend using it as a stick as a negotiating stance. Meet our FOM and financial demands first for example. Though be huge lobbying of National Governments within the EU. Depending on who funds who. They'll be movement. That's a certainty. Without funds political movements cannot operate.

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Honestly the posts get more desperate.

Who pays German welfare?

Who pays British welfare?

Is Brussels a sovereign parliament?

I think you need to do some research on the constitutional arrangements if the EU vs the UK.

Have you been on the Trading Economics website as I explained in that thread? Have you seen the trading position of the EU net contributors with the UK?

I read what you all post and wax lyrical about on that thread. All of you regard separate nations influencing how the negotiations go as how the UK will get a good trade deal in the end. Every single time someone says 'but the EU will negotiate as one' someone will diss them off with a 'but Germany, but cars, but France, but wine' type of thing.

The same is not true in the UK. Scotland, NI and Wales have no place at the table and you insist that the UK will negotiate 'as one'. Make up your mind.

Anyway I see Corbyn is racing back up the polls. Being on the same page as May regarding Brexit has enticed a fair few ex-Labour Leave voters back with their focus on domestic issues. The Tory manifesto might have backfired a bit, and that lead is slipping perhaps into single digits and if it slips much further in the next three weeks perhaps even into 'coalition of chaos' territory. It will make little difference in Scotland since most of the UK Labour manifesto has been standard practice already via the SNP here for years.

But, perhaps this election has just gotten interesting after all. Also a useful lesson there for you that polls do change, especially in the last few weeks in the lead up to a vote. Take no notice of indy polls for a while, they mean nothing at this point in time. May seems to be blowing a 20+ point lead all in the space of a few weeks. Sturgeon has a few years yet before she needs to start worrying about indy polls.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I read what you all post and wax lyrical about on that thread. All of you regard separate nations influencing how the negotiations go as how the UK will get a good trade deal in the end. Every single time someone says 'but the EU will negotiate as one' someone will diss them off with a 'but Germany, but cars, but France, but wine' type of thing.

The same is not true in the UK. Scotland, NI and Wales have no place at the table and you insist that the UK will negotiate 'as one'. Make up your mind.

Anyway I see Corbyn is racing back up the polls. Being on the same page as May regarding Brexit has enticed a fair few ex-Labour Leave voters back with their focus on domestic issues. The Tory manifesto might have backfired a bit, and that lead is slipping perhaps into single digits and if it slips much further in the next three weeks perhaps even into 'coalition of chaos' territory. It will make little difference in Scotland since most of the UK Labour manifesto has been standard practice already via the SNP here for years.

But, perhaps this election has just gotten interesting after all. Also a useful lesson there for you that polls do change, especially in the last few weeks in the lead up to a vote. Take no notice of indy polls for a while, they mean nothing at this point in time. May seems to be blowing a 20+ point lead all in the space of a few weeks. Sturgeon has a few years yet before she needs to start worrying about indy polls.

The UK is the sovereign nation. It can ratify it's own agreements at the UK level on the international stage. The constituent home nations cannot.

The EU is a political affiliation, the member states pool some sovereignty but not all. Each member is required to ratify treaty change and deals, although I understand this to be changing due to the recent ECJ ruling.

I've lost count of how many times I've said this: they are not comparable, particularly how you are trying to compare them. Both may be unions under language but legally they are entirely different in their composition and operation, like the USA is a union of yet another composition and operation. If the UK operated the way you seem to think it does we would be more like the USA than the EU. But we don't.

sss555s

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

The UK is the sovereign nation. It can ratify it's own agreements at the UK level on the international stage. The constituent home nations cannot.

This thread is about changing this and for Scotland to become a sovereign nation in it's own right. That is the whole point.
Scotland can manage it's own (5 million population) future better than Westminster can.

May has let the UK down again in her failed attempt to win the Saudi arms deal £110bn which has also lost more potential trade...

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/20/saudi-aramco-ceo-says-to-sign-50-billion-of-deals-with-u-s-companies.html


Trump has wiped the floor with her. If the UK had been operating in a professional competent way and was a stable member of the EU then they may have stood a chance at winning the deal. Westminster and their media outlets are delusional if they think they can compete with the big boys the way things are.

Hinkley point C is how Westminster has to do business. Borrow money from China (at a high interest rate), pay France to build a nuclear plant (who will sub contract a lot and still make a massive profit by the time it is actually operational) which is outdated technology in a lot of peoples eyes, then lay the cost onto your own consumers of the next few decades. Great!!!


Tricky, can you share your wisdom on the Q4 regional trade figures below?

TrickyTree83

sss555s wrote: »

This thread is about changing this and for Scotland to become a sovereign nation in it's own right. That is the whole point.
Scotland can manage it's own (5 million population) future better than Westminster can.

May has let the UK down again in her failed attempt to win the Saudi arms deal £110bn which has also lost more potential trade...

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/20/saudi-aramco-ceo-says-to-sign-50-billion-of-deals-with-u-s-companies.html


Trump has wiped the floor with her. If the UK had been operating in a professional competent way and was a stable member of the EU then they may have stood a chance at winning the deal. Westminster and their media outlets are delusional if they think they can compete with the big boys the way things are.

Hinkley point C is how Westminster has to do business. Borrow money from China (at a high interest rate), pay France to build a nuclear plant (who will sub contract a lot and still make a massive profit by the time it is actually operational) which is outdated technology in a lot of peoples eyes, then lay the cost onto your own consumers of the next few decades. Great!!!


Tricky, can you share your wisdom on the Q4 regional trade figures below?

That the SNP are doing their best to make the Scottish economy a shambles, decreasing exports where all other home nations are increasing. Scottish imports have grown proportionally more than any other home nation economy too, whilst running a deficit. But I suppose that's all Westminsters fault without saying how too, like the other remarks in your post, right?