The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

TrickyTree83

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

By that logic, we'd never get a government.
Will the Conservatives get over 50% of the popular vote?

You know full well MP's are elected to Westminster using the FPTP system, or at least you ought to know.

That's different to the vote share.

Trying to conflate the two is not an argument against what is clearly going to happen on June 8th, which is a referendum on having an independence referendum in Scotland.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

If only there was some sort of mechanism, perhaps a chamber of representatives, that some people in Scotland could have to reflect and act upon their will. It could be proportional, so as to ensure that it was a fairly accurate gauge of said will.


String, no one is going to wait past 2021 in Scotland for Brexit to play out ( next Holyrood election ). Sturgeon will only strengthen her mandate for another ref/vote during this one over Scotland staying in the Single Market, and taking a majority of seats as full public backing and endorsement of the Scottish Parliament's wishes.

After June 8th the Scottish Parliament will press on regardless. There's nothing really more to be said because after June 8th there's nothing further you can really do about it. Apart from bang on about vote shares which will be forgotten in a few months time anyway as the Brexit talks get going ( if they ever do ). But you won't stop a referendum vote off the back of a crap Tory vote share in Scotland. Sorry.

How will she strengthen?

You massively assume that the SNP are going to buck the current trend which for them and the independence movement is a negative trajectory.

You can only fool people and not give any concrete answers for so long before they see through it and decide it's full of it and go elsewhere. Particularly if the current administration that happens to represent independence is doing a crap job of administering what they do have control of, whilst attempting to deflect the blame for devolved power not being used correctly on Westminster.

TrickyTree83

.string. wrote: »

I particularly liked your #2.

Did you realise that

No one but yourself and other people are assuming that 'vote share' in this GE is not going to be some sort of benchmark.

It was a funny remark.

Anyway for the rest of the points it was recycled spin stuff.Old stuff.

We shall obviously have to wait and see how this "plays out", to coin a phrase.

Is the GE about Neverendums now? I've lost track of SNP Party oscillations on this.

If I'm for independence, I'd view a majority vote share for the SNP and Greens on June 8th as a clear indication, much better than a poll, that the Scottish electorate want independence.

The opposite is also true.

I know why they don't want to acknowledge this. I said many months ago - the dream is dying. It's dying because there are no answers, there's no plan, there's no administration getting Scotland ready for it. It's just grievance and myth.

As I recall I posted that I thought independence would happen if:

- Scotland was prepared for it, not spending Barnett, properly balancing trade away from the rest of the UK
- Honesty about tax rises or spending cuts required
- Honesty about currency, diplomacy, NATO, the armed forces, public sector workers, etc...

Making lofty promises or claims a thing of the past so the movement cannot be ridiculed with evidence and reason.

If there was a compelling honest case, I'm sure more than 50% would vote for it, at the moment they're their own worst enemy at times.

IveSeenTheLight

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

You know full well MP's are elected to Westminster using the FPTP system, or at least you ought to know.

That's different to the vote share.

Trying to conflate the two is not an argument against what is clearly going to happen on June 8th, which is a referendum on having an independence referendum in Scotland.

Indeed I do know that the GE is a FPTP system.
As do I know the Scottish system uses AMS. A system that allows people such as the labour leader Keshia Dugdale to be an MSP despite failing to secure her seat.

Trying to conflate a GE with a vote share in Scotland to detrmine a mandate for Indipendence is the ludicrous suggestion.

Accept the facts, the Scottish MSPs voted on the matter and was duly for section 30.

That's democracy. Trying to fabricate a situation to determine a certain outcome to suit your preference is not democracy

TrickyTree83

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Indeed I do know that the GE is a FPTP system.
As do I know the Scottish system uses AMS. A system that allows people such as the labour leader Keshia Dugdale to be an MSP despite failing to secure her seat.

Trying to conflate a GE with a vote share in Scotland to detrmine a mandate for Indipendence is the ludicrous suggestion.

Accept the facts, the Scottish MSPs voted on the matter and was duly for section 30.

That's democracy. Trying to fabricate a situation to determine a certain outcome to suit your preference is not democracy

It's not a fabrication.

It's how it is, sorry. The fabrication is you and others attempting to say that people expressing a will against independence in this vote should be ignored. They won't be and that's just tough.

kabayiri

Do you think many Scots will bother to turn out to vote for this GE?

They weren't that bothered to turn out for the Brexit vote, despite all being "red blooded Europeans" (or so Nicola told us all).

What if it's raining? What if a Nat offers to give an Unionist a lift, and instead drops them off at the chippy for a spot of deep fried McCains pizza?

All possible pitfalls....why, I suspect many won't bother.

Shaka_Zulu

Shakethedisease wrote: »

The 45% in Sept 2014 have remained solidly committed to independence it seems and aren't going away.

Well we will see in the GE whether you have your solidly committed 45%.

I for one think you will be lucky to get 35% solidly committed.

We will wait and see though.

Yah_Boo_Sux

[QUOTE=Appeal Roaster;72569023
Now with none of your usual bull, show us where the SNP have had polls showing 60% for a year?[/QUOTE]

:rotfl:

Never.
Impossible.
Beyond the comprehension of the SNP supporting lot in here, sorry.
Expect reams of rubbish and no answer.
Except "circumstances have changed" - ignoring that polls haven't or certainly not enough.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

I particularly liked your #2.

Did you realise that

No one but yourself and other people are assuming that 'vote share' in this GE is not going to be some sort of benchmark.

It was a funny remark.

Anyway for the rest of the points it was recycled spin stuff.Old stuff.

We shall obviously have to wait and see how this "plays out", to coin a phrase.

Is the GE about Neverendums now? I've lost track of SNP Party oscillations on this.

string can we just get this straight once and for all. As far as I, and 1000's of others in Scotland are concerned the Scottish Parliament has already gained public consent. With it they voted through a bill seeking a second indy ref. It's done, over with, finished, on May's desk awaiting an official response. Theresa can say No now, or she can wait until after June 8th. It makes no difference whatsoever.

Pushing vote share or some vague form of 'public consent' as justification to say No is obviously what's in play here as we can see from Tricky's posts among others. But will the Scottish Parliament accept as justification ? No, they won't. Then what are you going to do ?

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

How will she strengthen?

By mentioning in her own manifesto that if the SNP gain a majority of seats, then it'll be taken as full public consent and endorsement of the Scottish Parliament and it's wishes.

You massively assume that the SNP are going to buck the current trend which for them and the independence movement is a negative trajectory.

Yes, I think a very bad Brexit deal and another 2 years of Theresa May will have independence support well over 50%. YouGov asked me the independence question the other day and they haven't published the results yet for some reason.

You can only fool people and not give any concrete answers for so long before they see through it and decide it's full of it and go elsewhere. Particularly if the current administration that happens to represent independence is doing a crap job of administering what they do have control of, whilst attempting to deflect the blame for devolved power not being used correctly on Westminster.

You're still viewing Scotland through a far away lense and Daily Express/Telegraph headlines. You really have no idea. People (overall) in Scotland much prefer the SNP to both the Tories and Labour. Any ideas why ?