Accident at nursery

Andypandyboy

onlyroz wrote: »

Attitudes are gradually changing but I do think that assumptions are still made that if one career is to be sacrificed then it will be the mothers.

I do know of some men who are bucking the societal norm. I work with a man who is relatively senior who took 6 months extended parental leave (I think his wife is a barrister or similar and earns considerably more than him). A few eyebrows were raised but nobody objected and it didn't impact his job any more than it would have impacted a woman who took a 6-month break.

I know of another man who took his wife's surname upon marriage - now that definitely did raise eyebrows right across the board and the poor man was constantly expected to justify his decision.

I know of a few men who asked to go down to 4 days a week. They were told that they could do this but would have to take a demotion. Now I know of at least two women who won constructive dismissal cases against their employer because their request for a flexible arrangement wasn't taken seriously enough - and so I think that these men who asked for the same thing would have been able to successfully win an employment tribunal if they'd been willing to take the issue further.

I still think that it comes down to personal cirumstances today as the law now supports choice much more than it ever did. Most of the young mums I know didn't want to return to work full time and the few that did, did just that.

So, is it an assumption based on societal expectation or is an assumption it based on what seems to be the norm from observation?

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

onlyroz wrote: »

Until the local authority forced them to stop, they used to shut the whole school down for three days a year for "progress days". We were expected to find suitable childcare for the kids and take time off work to attend appointments with the teachers. Now they have a more sensible system where appointments are offered from 3:15 PM through to around 8 PM.
.

Just as an aside, I wonder if you've ever wondered how school staff who are parents manage to arrange additional childcare until around 9:30pm (or later) when their kids could already have been in nursery from 7am?

Seeing as I had difficulty finding childminders or after school clubs that stayed open long enough for me to get there after work finishing at 5:30pm (and holiday clubs finished even earlier), had I been required to find somebody prepared to look after the offspring until the 11:30pm I am required to work until several times a term, plus the overrunning of parents evenings where people turn up late and then assume there's no issue with staying even longer to fit in with their times, I wouldn't have been happy about it either. Fortunately, I didn't get jobs in education until they'd left home, as I couldn't have done it when they were small.

ravilious_fan

onlyroz wrote: »

Until the local authority forced them to stop, they used to shut the whole school down for three days a year for "progress days". We were expected to find suitable childcare for the kids and take time off work to attend appointments with the teachers. Now they have a more sensible system where appointments are offered from 3:15 PM through to around 8 PM.

So..? We had Baker Days at school. Our parents didn't complain that we needed to be looked after when we weren't at school.

It's not the school's job to provide a babysitting service for your children, nor to fit in with your career or lifestyle choices. A school's job is to educate children, not to act as free childcare! If it's inconvenient for you to look after your children yourself you'll have to arrange a babysitter.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

Just as an aside, I wonder if you've ever wondered how school staff who are parents manage to arrange additional childcare until around 9:30pm (or later) when their kids could already have been in nursery from 7am?

Seeing as I had difficulty finding childminders or after school clubs that stayed open long enough for me to get there after work finishing at 5:30pm (and holiday clubs finished even earlier), had I been required to find somebody prepared to look after the offspring until the 11:30pm I am required to work until several times a term, plus the overrunning of parents evenings where people turn up late and then assume there's no issue with staying even longer to fit in with their times, I wouldn't have been happy about it either. Fortunately, I didn't get jobs in education until they'd left home, as I couldn't have done it when they were small.

If your hours are really that haphazard you need to make other arrangements. It's really not fair to leave a child in a nursery from 7am till after 9.30pm.

And as for wanting nurseries to be open at 11.30pm.. have I read that right??
No office job expects people to be there at that time of night, and if they do they can cough up for the unsociable hours!

onlyroz

ravilious_fan wrote: »

So..? We had Baker Days at school. Our parents didn't complain that we needed to be looked after when we weren't at school.

It's not the school's job to provide a babysitting service for your children, nor to fit in with your career or lifestyle choices. A school's job is to educate children, not to act as free childcare! If it's inconvenient for you to look after your children yourself you'll have to arrange a babysitter.

The point is that inset days are normally scheduled either side of a half term holiday and the holiday club can usually provide cover for them. Three random days in the middle of the week are almost impossible to cater for, especially when you're expected to get to turn up at the school for your appointment with the teacher at some random time during the day.

onlyroz

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

Just as an aside, I wonder if you've ever wondered how school staff who are parents manage to arrange additional childcare until around 9:30pm (or later) when their kids could already have been in nursery from 7am?

I'm not unsympathetic to the plight of school staff (being the daughter of two teachers myself). However, there are some things they could do quite easily to make things less stressful for working parents. For example, on tuesday we have the Easter disco. Except it's not one disco but two. We are expected to turn up at 3:15 pm to collect one child from school. We then turn up again at 4:45 pm to bring that child back to school and collect the second child. We then have to turn up *again* at 6:30 pm to collect the second child, probably having had to drag the first child back as well because they're too young to leave at home. So that's three trips to and from school in the space of three hours. Also we can't use the after-school club because that's located at the other school in the village, which means begging the boss to let me leave work three hours early. It would be far easier for everybody if they just had one s0dding disco for everybody, and we picked up all the kids at 6 pm.

Andypandyboy

onlyroz wrote: »

I'm not unsympathetic to the plight of school staff (being the daughter of two teachers myself). However, there are some things they could do quite easily to make things less stressful for working parents. For example, on tuesday we have the Easter disco. Except it's not one disco but two. We are expected to turn up at 3:15 pm to collect one child from school. We then turn up again at 4:45 pm to bring that child back to school and collect the second child. We then have to turn up *again* at 6:30 pm to collect the second child, probably having had to drag the first child back as well because they're too young to leave at home. So that's three trips to and from school in the space of three hours. It would be far easier for everybody if they just had one s0dding disco for everybody, and we picked up all the kids at 6 pm.

It wouldn't be easier for the staff/PTA that had to supervise a full age range of excited kids, after hours, when their own kids are at home;) So, easier for you, but not everybody.

You have the choice not to send your kids to the disco, but if you choose to do so then you have to accept the constraints that surround it.

ravilious_fan

onlyroz wrote: »

The point is that inset days are normally scheduled either side of a half term holiday and the holiday club can usually provide cover for them. Three random days in the middle of the week are almost impossible to cater for, especially when you're expected to get to turn up at the school for your appointment with the teacher at some random time during the day.

Take a flexi-day off work.. (or a holiday day)
It's not difficult.

What happens when one of the children wakes up feeling unwell? Do you look after them or are they dragged to a childminders then, too.

Some things can't be predicted in advance.

pollypenny

onlyroz wrote: »

I'm not unsympathetic to the plight of school staff (being the daughter of two teachers myself). However, there are some things they could do quite easily to make things less stressful for working parents. For example, on tuesday we have the Easter disco. Except it's not one disco but two. We are expected to turn up at 3:15 pm to collect one child from school. We then turn up again at 4:45 pm to bring that child back to school and collect the second child. We then have to turn up *again* at 6:30 pm to collect the second child, probably having had to drag the first child back as well because they're too young to leave at home. So that's three trips to and from school in the space of three hours. Also we can't use the after-school club because that's located at the other school in the village, which means begging the boss to let me leave work three hours early. It would be far easier for everybody if they just had one s0dding disco for everybody, and we picked up all the kids at 6 pm.

That's easy. The school stops organising discos and other treats for pupils. Teachers don't have to 'volunteer ' their time and parents are happy.

SingleSue

ravilious_fan wrote: »

So..? We had Baker Days at school. Our parents didn't complain that we needed to be looked after when we weren't at school.

It's not the school's job to provide a babysitting service for your children, nor to fit in with your career or lifestyle choices. A school's job is to educate children, not to act as free childcare! If it's inconvenient for you to look after your children yourself you'll have to arrange a babysitter.



If your hours are really that haphazard you need to make other arrangements. It's really not fair to leave a child in a nursery from 7am till after 9.30pm.

And as for wanting nurseries to be open at 11.30pm.. have I read that right??
No office job expects people to be there at that time of night, and if they do they can cough up for the unsociable hours!

My office job was until 10.30 or 11pm....I worked an evening shift to fit into now ex husband's hours so that he was home to look after the children.

And yes, I was very well paid for it too.

Unfortunately it then became an issue when my marriage broke down as there was no childcare provision for that time of day, even if a childcare provider had wanted to take two of my boys (multiple disabilities, everyone said no, hence working evening shift)

It worked blooming well for the company actually, we 'hoovered' up the admin which plagues a busy shipping office and which the usual day staff didn't have time to manage. It worked well for us 'nighters' too, we could do hours during the day to cover sickness/extra demand if we wanted to.

Jagraf

ravilious_fan wrote: »

Take a flexi-day off work.. (or a holiday day)
It's not difficult.

What happens when one of the children wakes up feeling unwell? Do you look after them or are they dragged to a childminders then, too.

Some things can't be predicted in advance.

Dragged. Dumped. I know you don't agree with parents working but please we are all trying to do the best for our kids and there really is more than your way of doing it.