Nice People Thread No. 15, a Cyber Summer

Pyxis

Yes, the Bar Mitzvah, for boys.

Generali was asking about the Bat Mitzvah, for girls.

CKhalvashi

Pyxis wrote: »

That's very interesting, CK.

Where was it from?

I think the Guardian. It popped up on my Twitter feed.

silvercar

Generali wrote: »

Has a batmizvah always been a thing or is it a modern addition to the Jewish social calendar?

Quite modern. When I was 12 it was optional and about half the girls did and half didn't. Parties for girls tended to be much smaller. People used to say that fathers of girls paid for the weddings so batmitzvah parties were small, whereas as fathers of boys paid for barmitzvah parties. There is definitely less religious involvement in a batmitzvah.

Pyxis wrote: »

I've just been reading up on this, but would anyone on here who's Jewish please correct me if my source is wrong:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_and_Bat_Mitzvah

It appears from the above that the modern concept of Bat Mitzvah started in America in 1922, when a Rabbi held one for his daughter.
However, there are far older references, and some ancient ones, to the acknowledgement of the coming-of-age of both boys and girls.

I noted with interest that the Bat Mitzvah age for Orthodox Jews is 12, whereas in the Reformed Synagogue it's 13, the same as for boys. Is this due to an equality thing?


I also noted, with amusement, that there is also a Bark Mitzvah, for dogs. :T
Edit. The latter seems to be a US thing.

Never even heard of a bark mitzvah. Sounds barking mad to me. How do you determine if a dog is jewish?

Reform synagogues are big on equality, in a particular drive to distinguish themselves from more religious/ traditional groups. The original logic for the 12/ 13 split was that girls grow up quicker than boys.

Pyxis

Bark Mitzvah - probably just a nutty US thing then, like dog wedding parlours.
Another retail opportunity!

PasturesNew

Pyxis wrote: »

Yes, the Bar Mitzvah, for boys.

Generali was asking about the Bat Mitzvah, for girls.

Ah, never heard of it
Thought the bar/bat was just some alternative spellings being lobbed around.

michaels

Just remembering that a week ago I was thinking how quiet it would be on the board this week once the EU referendum was out the way and we wouldn't have anything other than house prices to talk about again....

Pyxis

silvercar wrote: »

Never even heard of a bark mitzvah. Sounds barking mad to me. How do you determine if a dog is jewish?

.

Have been googling about dogs. You can get kosher dog food. It's actually quite interesting, because what I didn't know before is that it's not just a question of not eating non-kosher food, but also of not deriving benefit from non-kosher food, so as you get benefit from feeding a pet, that could be a reason for not giving them non-kosher food.
Some authorities say that you can feed wild/stray animals non-kosher food, whereas stricter rules say that you still get some benefit from feeding them, so it should be kosher food.
Very interesting.

Pyxis

michaels wrote: »

Just remembering that a week ago I was thinking how quiet it would be on the board this week once the EU referendum was out the way and we wouldn't have anything other than house prices to talk about again....

There are too many interesting new things to find out about, for that to ever happen!


Did you know that in mediaeval times, the not eating meat on Fridays rule exempted rabbit or chicken, I forget which, as that was deemed to be fish!

Edit.. It was rabbit, specifically "laurices" or new-born rabbits.

CKhalvashi

(screenshot deleted)

Just as I want to go to bed, someone calls......This is going to be a long one.

ETA: Don't quote photo, will delete.

silvercar

Pyxis wrote: »

Have been googling about dogs. You can get kosher dog food. It's actually quite interesting, because what I didn't know before is that it's not just a question of not eating non-kosher food, but also of not deriving benefit from non-kosher food, so as you get benefit from feeding a pet, that could be a reason for not giving them non-kosher food.
Some authorities say that you can feed wild/stray animals non-kosher food, whereas stricter rules say that you still get some benefit from feeding them, so it should be kosher food.
Very interesting.

While I respect everyone's different rules, I would add a large pinch of salt to that school of thought.

A more widely respected website would tell you that dogs don't need to keep kosher.