If we vote for Brexit what happens

CLAPTON

Conrad wrote: »

Russia I suspect has further ambitions with regard to Ukrain and pro Russia forces probably backed by Russian forces are said to be amassing again.

The EU has done nothing but provoke Putin with sanctions and far more besides, he and the Russian people are probably now immune to EU punishment.

Of course Putin is a nut but I see no benefit in provoking him over and again.

In the eyes of the average Russian, the UK is a hipocrite, what with our readiness to deploy military force of Gibralter or any number of other off shore territories were compromised. In Russian eyes certain parts ofEurasia belong to the bear, and if you read your history, with some justification

An EU army would be a disaster in terms of efficiency

So that Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Poland, (plus a few more) gone then

Sapphire

Conrad wrote: »

Russia I suspect has further ambitions with regard to Ukrain and pro Russia forces probably backed by Russian forces are said to be amassing again.

The EU has done nothing but provoke Putin with sanctions and far more besides, he and the Russian people are probably now immune to EU punishment.

Of course Putin is a nut but I see no benefit in provoking him over and again.

In the eyes of the average Russian, the UK is a hipocrite, what with our readiness to deploy military force of Gibralter or any number of other off shore territories were compromised. In Russian eyes certain parts ofEurasia belong to the bear, and if you read your history, with some justification

An EU army would be a disaster in terms of efficiency

I agree with most of your post. However, which parts of Eurasia do you think 'belong' to the Bear, and what is the justification for this in your eyes? If you are talking about the Ukraine, then perhaps there is some truth in what you say – this country was formed relatively recently by renegades and rebels largely from Russia, and there is some support for Russia in it. However, there would be no justification whatsoever in Russia invading ancient nations like Poland, Lithuania, Hungary and others – which are actually much older than Russia.

NATO, not an 'EU army' (absurd idea), needs to provide a block to dissuade an advance by Putin into Europe. And yes, provoking Putin is another stupid idea.

Sapphire

Next instalment coming up from the EU:

'Ve announce today that we vill be introducing a common tax and pension system to all countries in the EU [omit 'irrespective of the status of their differing economies']. Zis is in the spirit of ever-greater political union, which ve are continuing to implement [no vote by citizens of European nations required, of course].' Cue another standard picture of lined-up smiling dummies.

LHW99

Have you a link to that Sapphire?

Sapphire

LHW99 wrote: »

Have you a link to that Sapphire?

Not at the moment, but I read about it in several sources a few weeks ago. Wait and see…

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Sapphire wrote: »

Not at the moment

Quelle surprise....

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Meanwhile in other news .........

Merkel says "people would only choose the EU if it helped them to prosper", recognising that the EU needs to do more and that "sometimes we are out of touch with what Europe is really about".
http://www.euronews.com/2016/08/26/merkel-calls-brexit-a-deep-break-in-eu-integration

This whilst the German economy shows signs of a slump:
http://www.euractiv.com/section/trade-society/news/german-firms-see-brexit-clouds-approaching/

Thrugelmir

Conrad wrote: »

Russia I suspect has further ambitions with regard to Ukrain and pro Russia forces probably backed by Russian forces are said to be amassing again.

The EU has done nothing but provoke Putin with sanctions and far more besides, he and the Russian people are probably now immune to EU punishment.

Of course Putin is a nut but I see no benefit in provoking him over and again.

In the eyes of the average Russian, the UK is a hipocrite, what with our readiness to deploy military force of Gibralter or any number of other off shore territories were compromised. In Russian eyes certain parts ofEurasia belong to the bear, and if you read your history, with some justification

An EU army would be a disaster in terms of efficiency

I would recommend a read of

Prisoners of Geography: Ten Maps That Tell You Everything You Need To Know About Global Politics by Tim Marshall.

You'll be enlightened that I can assure you.

TrickyTree83

Conrad wrote: »

Russia I suspect has further ambitions with regard to Ukrain and pro Russia forces probably backed by Russian forces are said to be amassing again.

The EU has done nothing but provoke Putin with sanctions and far more besides, he and the Russian people are probably now immune to EU punishment.

Of course Putin is a nut but I see no benefit in provoking him over and again.

In the eyes of the average Russian, the UK is a hipocrite, what with our readiness to deploy military force of Gibralter or any number of other off shore territories were compromised. In Russian eyes certain parts ofEurasia belong to the bear, and if you read your history, with some justification

An EU army would be a disaster in terms of efficiency

The Russian people may see it as part of the old country but Russia signed the Budapest Memorandum which was supposed to guarantee Ukrainian sovereignty and borders, they've now broken that treaty quite openly. Russian diplomatic currency is on the same downward trend as the Rouble and rightly so. The EU actually had little to do with Maidan compared to the US. There's even recorded telephone conversations where 'f**k the EU' is used by members of the US state department in conversation about who could form the next Ukrainian government.

Slightly related to what you were saying but I've travelled there many times since the war broke out, with a Ukrainian wife and relatives it's hard not to. Russian irregular forces in the region will likely get hammered next time fighting flares up. The UAF were woefully under prepared previously, basically a mixture of conscripts, extremists and buffoon command and control all acting independently of one another. They will have learnt the mistakes, even without the help of Western countries, which they've had in spades since Minsk 2.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/27/thanks-to-the-eus-bungling-russia-will-inevitably-win-in-ukraine/