If we vote for Brexit what happens

Sapphire

Remember the distant past, before we voted for Brexit, and the Remoaners were all saying that an EU army (among other things) would never happen? Well, guess what – this is exactly what Frau Merkel has been discussing with the Eastern European nations today, and they look as happy as can be in the traditional line up of dummy figures. So Juncker will presumably stand at the head of this EU (German) army, alongside Merkel. :beer: :T

You couldn't make it up. It's an even more stupid idea than the one-size-fits-all Euro currency idea, which is wrecking Europe economically. Poland, for example, has an ultra-right government, with enormous influence also exercised by an extremist Catholic Church. Merkel is a far leftist. So how, in the long run, could nations in the EU work smoothly together when it comes to warfare? I know why the Eastern European nations would agree to it (fear of Russian invasion, based on past experiences), but it will be interesting to see what the other nations of Europe will have to say about it…:cool:

I will also be very interested to hear the suggestions for how the EU is going to fix its economic problems, which are threatening to bring down banks in Germany, Italy and Portugal (at least).

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Sapphire wrote: »

EU Army

You couldn't make it up. .

And yet.... You did.

An EU Army would be subject to unanimous consent and therefore any state can Veto it.

The UK could veto it had we remained in.

Thrugelmir

Sapphire wrote: »

You couldn't make it up. It's an even more stupid idea than the one-size-fits-all Euro currency idea, which is wrecking Europe economically.

Not quite so stupid as it may seem. To set the scene. On the Eastern flank of Europe adjoining Russia are Latvia and Estonia. Next to Estonia is Lithuania. Sandwiched between Lithuania and Poland is the Russian province of Kaliningrad. This provides the Russians with a strategic naval port on the Baltic Sea. It's the only ice free European port that the Russians have.

As was the case with Crimea if Russia was to roll over into Latvia first. There would be little that could be done. With many of the population being Russians there'd be as much of a welcome as there would be resistance. Estonia would then be isolated. Lithuania would likewise fall. This would then protect Russia's Western flank with the Baltic sea it's defence. Also result in Russia having unfettered access to Kaliningrad by land.

Russia's moves have a purpose. They occupied the Crimea as the Ukraine would not have renewed the Russian Navy base lease in Sebastopol, and Putin understood that. With relationships with the EU still at a low ebb. Who knows what might happen next.

Sapphire

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Not quite so stupid as it may seem. To set the scene. On the Eastern flank of Europe adjoining Russia are Latvia and Estonia. Next to Estonia is Lithuania. Sandwiched between Lithuania and Poland is the Russian province of Kaliningrad. This provides the Russians with a strategic naval port on the Baltic Sea. It's the only ice free European port that the Russians have.

As was the case with Crimea if Russia was to roll over into Latvia first. There would be little that could be done. With many of the population being Russians there'd be as much of a welcome as there would be resistance. Estonia would then be isolated. Lithuania would likewise fall. This would then protect Russia's Western flank with the Baltic sea it's defence. Also result in Russia having unfettered access to Kaliningrad by land.

Russia's moves have a purpose. They occupied the Crimea as the Ukraine would not have renewed the Russian Navy base lease in Sebastopol, and Putin understood that. With relationships with the EU still at a low ebb. Who knows what might happen next.

I agree with all that. However, provoking Putin is a stupid idea. He would squash flat any 'EU army'. NATO is the organisation that should be dealing with such things, not a 'EU army', especially one run by Juncker and Germany.

My worry would also be that an 'EU army' could be used against the citizens of European nations, say if they didn't agree with the 'authority' of Juncker or Merkel, or had divergent political views to those of the 'central authority' (which has not, after all, been elected by the citizens of European nations, unlike in a parliamentary democracy). Working together as nations in the face of threat is fine, but an 'empire' such as this EU one that is being pushed for could be disastrous for European nations, in my view.

Thrugelmir

Sapphire wrote: »

However, provoking Putin is a stupid idea.

You are missing the point. Has nothing to do with provoking Putin. Russia will do whatever it takes to retain control of Kaliningrad. The port is of strategic importance. The EU is fully aware of this and the dangers that Russia poses.

Sapphire

Thrugelmir wrote: »

You are missing the point. Has nothing to do with provoking Putin. Russia will do whatever it takes to retain control of Kaliningrad. The port is of strategic importance. The EU is fully aware of this and the dangers that Russia poses.

I am not missing the point. I know of what you speak (my parents are from Poland, and both they and my further ancestors had the joys of experiencing Russian occupation with all the loveliness it bought). However, the point is that NATO is the force that should be coordinating any effort to deter Putin, not a dysfunctional, splintered off 'EU army', composed of a variety of political positions, languages and ideas, and without the strength to deal with Putin, who as I said could squash Europe flat within a matter of days.

Such an idea is a stupid and dangerous – not least for the citizens of Europe who have no say in an 'EU army's' creation, the lack of democracy accompanying such a move, and the dangers of it being used against citizens to quell political ideas that do not fit the leftie ideology of people like Juncker and Merkel.

(And a key point of my original post was about the Remoaners and their assertions that an EU army was not planned and would never happen.)

CLAPTON

Sadly the deep racism of the EU is already starting to show consequences.

Turkey, who all the remainers know, will never be a member of the EU, is already turning to Russia as ally.

Who knows the evenual price.

Of course, if the EU had been free trading area rather than a political White Christian European cartel, Turkey, Black African countries et al could all have joined on an equal basis.
Anyway I'm sure the 'main' members of the EU will start to boost their armed forces now as they may have good reason to fear the bear.

But no matter, the 'remain' racists, like Selma's Jim Clark will to their dying day, think that discriminating against everyone but white christian people of europe, is simply normal non-racist behaviour.

Of course the 'remains' believe that peace in europe was guaranteed by the wonderful EU and not those US troops : lets hope they don't have to eat their words.

Mortgagefreeman

mayonnaise wrote: »

Brexit pushes up price of bacon butty as China takes advantage of weak sterling to buy British pork

I think you can blame the remain team for that. They flooded the market with porkies throughout the referendum campaign (see sig) Now they've run out of porkies they're in high demand by other Countries

Conrad

Thrugelmir wrote: »

You are missing the point. Has nothing to do with provoking Putin. Russia will do whatever it takes to retain control of Kaliningrad. The port is of strategic importance. The EU is fully aware of this and the dangers that Russia poses.

Russia I suspect has further ambitions with regard to Ukrain and pro Russia forces probably backed by Russian forces are said to be amassing again.

The EU has done nothing but provoke Putin with sanctions and far more besides, he and the Russian people are portably now immune to EU punishment.

Of course Putin is a nut but I see no benefit in provoking him over and again.

In the eyes of the average Russian, the UK is a hipocrite, what with our readiness to deploy military force of Gibralter or any number of other off shore territories were compromised. In Russian eyes certain parts ofEurasia belong to the bear, and if you read your history, with some justification

An EU army would be a disaster in terms of efficiency

Conrad

Thrugelmir wrote: »

You are missing the point. Has nothing to do with provoking Putin. Russia will do whatever it takes to retain control of Kaliningrad. The port is of strategic importance. The EU is fully aware of this and the dangers that Russia poses.

Russia I suspect has further ambitions with regard to Ukrain and pro Russia forces probably backed by Russian forces are said to be amassing again.

The EU has done nothing but provoke Putin with sanctions and far more besides, he and the Russian people are probably now immune to EU punishment.

Of course Putin is a nut but I see no benefit in provoking him over and again.

In the eyes of the average Russian, the UK is a hipocrite, what with our readiness to deploy military force of Gibralter or any number of other off shore territories were compromised. In Russian eyes certain parts ofEurasia belong to the bear, and if you read your history, with some justification

An EU army would be a disaster in terms of efficiency