If we vote for Brexit what happens

Moby

antrobus wrote: »

Makes a change from the UK being a plaything for the political careers of a handful of jostling Labourites, I suppose. You know, Brown being all anti-euro just to get up Blair's nose, ye olde Viscount Stansgate hoping to topple Wilson in the good old days.

Yes I remember Stansgate and Castle giving Harold a hard time......but come on Antrobus BoJo the clown is happening now! and surely he is the epitomy of self interest?
Which way are you swinging as a matter of interest?

CLAPTON

Moby wrote: »

Not that I am answerable to you but just for the record I consider myself a Social Democrat. Of course your post above is absolute rubbish because your distorted and puerile views of what the left stands for are reminiscent of McCarthyite 50's America and we all know how that turned out! You seem to live in a Colonel Blimp world peopled by imaginary threats, repeating the same cliches again and again.
I also find it strange how you reference everything you say against a twisted supposition of my beliefs....which is entirely inaccurate by the way. But since you made the point and just for the record I loathe the IRA and Chairman Mao as well and I also loathe Pinochet, Franco, Hitler, Mussolini, Noriega, Salazar, Papadopolous, Horthy, Petain, Quisling and all the nasty fascists in Africa, (too numerous to mention) and all that they stood for.
It also gives me satisfaction that in June I will be voting for the progressive, modernising option that is inclusive and embraces diversity rather than the narrow bigoted fearful view of the world epitomised by your 1950's throwback hero Nigel Farage.;)

glad we agree about so much
pity you didn't have the courage to say how much you loath the views of Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott or Lenin or Stalin but that can come later.

I respect your wishing to vote for stay although I don't agree that this it is best for the UK, Europe or indeed the world.

I struggle to see what is progressive and modernising about how Greece is being treated or how inclusiveness is enhanced by building barbed wire fences around most of the countries of Europe nor do I see how diversity is enhanced by eliminating all but one view. I believe Orwell covered this quite well

I wish to engage with the whole world and do not want to continue the 50 year old, very damaging tariff and non tariff barriers, to the developing countries, or the EUs very damaging environmental policies but dowih to maintain the diversity of legal systems and wish to retain the UK WC flush system plus much much more.
I wish to see 100 flowers grow and different views and attitudes flourishing.

antrobus

Moby wrote: »

Yes I remember Stansgate and Castle giving Harold a hard time......but come on Antrobus BoJo the clown is happening now! and surely he is the epitomy of self interest?...

BoJo is the clown that beat Ken the clown twice over. He is a very smart clown. You should fear him.

Moby wrote: »

...Which way are you swinging as a matter of interest?

I think free trade is a good idea. (With qualifications.) I think the EU is a bad expression of that idea. On the other hand, it is the only available expression of that idea in Europe, and I also have the distinct impression that Brexit zealots are all foxin idiots who have no idea of what they want to get themselves into.

I am conflicted.:)

Moby

CLAPTON wrote: »

glad we agree about so much
pity you didn't have the courage to say how much you loath the views of Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott or Lenin or Stalin but that can come later.

I respect your wishing to vote for stay although I don't agree that this it is best for the UK, Europe or indeed the world.

I struggle to see what is progressive and modernising about how Greece is being treated or how inclusiveness is enhanced by building barbed wire fences around most of the countries of Europe nor do I see how diversity is enhanced by eliminating all but one view. I believe Orwell covered this quite well

I wish to engage with the whole world and do not want to continue the 50 year old, very damaging tariff and non tariff barriers, to the developing countries, or the EUs very damaging environmental policies but dowih to maintain the diversity of legal systems and wish to retain the UK WC flush system plus much much more.
I wish to see 100 flowers grow and different views and attitudes flourishing.

The European project in it's purest form is aspiring towards a United States of Europe. For me that aspiration is progressive. Greece has suffered terribly but do you work for change and who the EU works for from within or withdraw to the sidelines? To talk about the EU as just having one Orwellian view is again typically distorted thinking. I know the outers are trying to present themselves as the modern diverse movement. Not convincing at all I'm afraid. They are mainly made up of the gray vote, the colonel blimps etc. The young are predominantly pro EU....that's where the future is imo.

Regarding Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott I provided you with a comprehensive answer months ago. Why on earth would it be an issue of courage? You repeating your views about them again and again is just your obsession....nothing I can do about that.

Moby

antrobus wrote: »

BoJo is the clown that beat Ken the clown twice over. He is a very smart clown. You should fear him.

True and in a city left of centre as well. It was v close though. I don't get the impression Zac is going to repeat the feat!

I think free trade is a good idea. (With qualifications.) I think the EU is a bad expression of that idea. On the other hand, it is the only available expression of that idea in Europe, and I also have the distinct impression that Brexit zealots are all foxin idiots who have no idea of what they want to get themselves into.

I am conflicted.:)

[/QUOTE]

Ever the pragmatist!

CLAPTON

Moby wrote: »

The European project in it's purest form is aspiring towards a United States of Europe. For me that aspiration is progressive. Greece has suffered terribly but do you work for change and who the EU works for from within or withdraw to the sidelines? To talk about the EU as just having one Orwellian view is again typically distorted thinking. I know the outers are trying to present themselves as the modern diverse movement. Not convincing at all I'm afraid. They are mainly made up of the gray vote, the colonel blimps etc. The young are predominantly pro EU....that's where the future is imo.

Regarding Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott I provided you with a comprehensive answer months ago. Why on earth would it be an issue of courage? You repeating your views about them again and again is just your obsession....nothing I can do about that.

But how is the treatment of Greece 'progressive?
why is one size fits all progressive?
why do you consider withdrawing from the rest of the world progressive?
why was refusing to help the developing countries, by allowing them access to the EU markets, progressive?
how do you consider the treatment of the Roma in europe as progressive?
why do you consider the colonialist fishing policies of the EU on the West Aftrica coast progressive?


why do you fear engaging with all the countries of the world : is it because they are often non white: is that a problem for you?

and I've forgotten your loathing of Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott but you can remind me if you like

LHW99

I also remember Wilson - and Heath.

The idea that if, heaven forbid, the UK needed bailouts in future we would have the EU crowd in charch, as has been for Greece horrifies me. Just the IMF was shameful, but at least they knew what they were doing, and there were not three different bodies trying to supervise what went on.

And as for Heath assuring the country there was no plan for a European superstate (which I remember hearing and not believing even then) when he knew that was the ultimate vision - I have never trusted any politician since.

The idea that Europe should be the centre of the UK's orbit is indeed 50 years out of date, and in an increasingly globalised world is a totally irrelevant idea IMHO.

michaels

Moby wrote: »

The European project in it's purest form is aspiring towards a United States of Europe. For me that aspiration is progressive. Greece has suffered terribly but do you work for change and who the EU works for from within or withdraw to the sidelines? To talk about the EU as just having one Orwellian view is again typically distorted thinking. I know the outers are trying to present themselves as the modern diverse movement. Not convincing at all I'm afraid. They are mainly made up of the gray vote, the colonel blimps etc. The young are predominantly pro EU....that's where the future is imo.

Regarding Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott I provided you with a comprehensive answer months ago. Why on earth would it be an issue of courage? You repeating your views about them again and again is just your obsession....nothing I can do about that.

I just love it when people resort to 'the young are...' arguments as if not realising that those who are no longer young once were.

BobQ

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-21/pound-falls-most-in-3-months-as-johnson-backs-brexit-campaign

The early international take on BoJos intervention. A leadership challenge in the guise of a referendum on a matter of some importance to the future of the nation. Pound is already falling in Auckland, although the connection with BoJo is a little tenuous!

CLAPTON

BobQ wrote: »

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-21/pound-falls-most-in-3-months-as-johnson-backs-brexit-campaign

The early international take on BoJos intervention. A leadership challenge in the guise of a referendum on a matter of some importance to the future of the nation. Pound is already falling in Auckland, although the connection with BoJo is a little tenuous!

with our massive trade deficit a fall in the pound is good for exports