If we vote for Brexit what happens

Generali

http://www.foodmanufacture.co.uk/Business-News/Vote-to-leave-EU-will-damage-UK-food-manufacturing

Most respondents (60%) in a ‘state-of-the-industry’ survey, conducted by this website, fear a vote to leave the EU on June 23 will be bad for their businesses, increasing the costs of imported ingredients, while hitting exports and access to labour from the EU.

http://www.foodmanufacture.co.uk/Manufacturing/Food-and-drink-manufacturers-better-off-outside-EU

Food and drink manufacturers ‘better off outside EU’.......

...Outside the EU it will be essential to continue a significant level of support to reassure farmers that payments would be made by the UK-government in the same way that non-EU countries...who are more generous than the EU currently do

Take your choice really. Cut off much access to existing export markets (the EU will not be signing any significant free trade deals on ag) while maybe gaining access to much smaller but faster growing new ones.

Oh and immigrants of course.

Moby

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Everything everyone was threatening Scotland with will be just as applicable if the UK votes to leave the (European) Union.

Being made an example of
Being seen to be punished even if there is reciprocal pain
Having to cope with having offended the bigger party
Being told that the bigger party will take their own sweet time in deciding what to do about us and no they don't care how urgent we find it

All of that. The only way anyone in their right mind should vote Leave is if they seriously want us to have NOTHING to do with Europe, either politically or economically.

There is no middle ground any more. It is far too late for that.

Add to this why on earth someone whose politics is left of centre would vote to Brexit totally escapes me.

Moby

Marktheshark wrote: »

There is endless they said, we said speculation.

Narrow the decision down :

Do you want to be able to vote In and OUT the politicians that govern you.
If you would rather they were just appointed on your behalf from the waiting pool of sharks known as career politicians then vote remain.
You wont have to vote any more, they will make all the complicated decision on your behalf.

Thats really all that is set in stone with the Brexit, who runs our country, who makes out laws and your right to vote them out if you do not like the new laws and lets not forget, they love new laws, 27 every single day that you mist obey.

This is effectively could be the last election in a lifetime in which you can vote to change anything meaningful.

If you trust the self appointed EU commissioners to run your life for you go ahead vote remain.
If you would like you and your children to be able to hold politicians accountable with the right to remove them, vote leave.

Nothing else is certain but that one important point.
That is set firmly in the tablets of stone .

You totally ignore the fact that we do vote for our MEPs. You also totally ignore the fact that the claim we have democracy in the UK is arguable. What about the House of Lords for instance. Look at the way the UK is split economically. I actually trust the euro bureaucrats more than I trust many of our lot. Do you seriouly think I would vote to increase the influence of UKIP and types like Gove and Johnston. These people are beyond the pale surely.

Moby

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

I'd disagree with this.

For all its failings, the UK parliament has MP's in your local area, who will run surgeries which you can attend should you wish to do so. You can go in there and look them in the eye. They speak your language, hopefully they live locally to you (more do than don't), they likely share your understanding of life in this country and would probably understand and maybe even share your concerns.

Can any of the above be said for any form of politician in the EU institutions?

Probably just the UK citizens in them.

Also consider that if you were to speak to this local MP of the UK parliament about your concerns and you are met with "...there is nothing that can be done, it is an EU directive". How would that make you feel? Do you feel empowered by that? If god forbid there was a situation in which you were desperate and in need of assistance, a voice that can put your case forward. Would you be more likely to be heard in the House of Commons or in the European Parliament?

Perhaps you feel the way you do because you've never had to approach a member of parliament about an issue only to be turned away because they no longer have the power to make a difference. But consider that other people in this country do have these issues and have spoken to their local MP and have been met with a wall of EU regulation and directives.

Factor in time too. If you indeed did believe that there was enough of a voice for your case to be heard at the EU parliament, you are then competing with a potential 500m other people to be heard. Also there's only so many hours that your representative can speak in the EU parliament, will your case be the one that is chosen?

At the very top of the EU, where we find the commission it is anti-democratic, Remain concede that they are un-elected. However in the EU parliament where you're supposed to have a say via your MEP your democratic voice is diluted to such an extent that I would very much doubt you will be heard. Especially when there's a business waiting in the wings to buy the MEP's time (lobbying).

PLEASE do not be blinded by left/right/centre/radical whatever party political lines or even some ideal like socialism, communism, liberalism or the like. You absolutely must see the EU for what it is, good and bad. We're not likely to get another chance at this referendum so think really hard about it.

The euro directives I have read about have improved my quality of life, they have held local politicians and their interest groups to account. By the way dont forget there are huge areas of UK politics untouched by EU decisions. To me I have more respect for what the EU does more than the shower we supposedly elect.

CLAPTON

Moby wrote: »

To me I have more respect for what the EU does more than the shower we supposedly elect.

says everyone one needs to know about the authoritarian, anti democratic left, that holds ordinary people in contempt.

mayonnaise

Marktheshark wrote: »

There is endless they said, we said speculation.

Narrow the decision down :

Do you want to be able to vote In and OUT the politicians that govern you.
If you would rather they were just appointed on your behalf from the waiting pool of sharks known as career politicians then vote remain.
You wont have to vote any more, they will make all the complicated decision on your behalf.

Thats really all that is set in stone with the Brexit, who runs our country, who makes out laws and your right to vote them out if you do not like the new laws and lets not forget, they love new laws, 27 every single day that you mist obey.

This is effectively could be the last election in a lifetime in which you can vote to change anything meaningful.

If you trust the self appointed EU commissioners to run your life for you go ahead vote remain.
If you would like you and your children to be able to hold politicians accountable with the right to remove them, vote leave.

Nothing else is certain but that one important point.
That is set firmly in the tablets of stone .

Hmmm...let me think....

A democratically elected European Parliament, a European Commission constituted by individuals despatched by democratically elected governments and a European Council composed of democratically elected EU head of states.

As opposed to a house of commons chosen by an utterly undemocratic voting system (FPTP), a fully unelected house of lords, and presiding over all of this, a hereditary monarch.

It's a tough one.

michaels

Moby wrote: »

The euro directives I have read about have improved my quality of life, they have held local politicians and their interest groups to account. By the way dont forget there are huge areas of UK politics untouched by EU decisions. To me I have more respect for what the EU does more than the shower we supposedly elect.

I think the in campaign should stick to the economy. When I hear people championing interventions because they don't think the uk democratic process would deliver the same result I feel extremely nervous - at that point we really are talking the politics of dictatorship.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

You might think it's a good idea to let the steel industry in this country fail, I do not. It is fundamental to our defense as a nation and is massively important to many thousands of people across the UK and not just in Port Talbot.

Maybe.

But the UK government voted against imposing punitive tariffs for Chinese steel in the EU as they judged the benefit to the totality of UK business and consumers in cheaper steel products outweighed the costs in employment and business stability of a few companies making the stuff.

Protectionism drives up the cost of things we buy and reduces our competitiveness in the World.

Overall it tends to be really bad for the country as a whole and only good for a small minority of people within the country.

michaels

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Maybe.

But the UK government voted against imposing punitive tariffs for Chinese steel in the EU as they judged the benefit to the totality of UK business and consumers in cheaper steel products outweighed the costs in employment and business stability of a few companies making the stuff.

Protectionism drives up the cost of things we buy and reduces our competitiveness in the World.

Overall it tends to be really bad for the country as a whole and only good for a small minority of people within the country.

I am glad you are celebrating the opportunity presented by leaving the inherently protectionist eu and like me looking forward to the lower food and electronics prices that will result from the removal of eu tariffs designed to protect a few french farmers and turkish tv manufacturers

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

michaels wrote: »

I think the in campaign should stick to the economy. When I hear people championing interventions because they don't think the uk democratic process would deliver the same result I feel extremely nervous - at that point we really are talking the politics of dictatorship.

Or alternatively we're talking the politics of increasing the amounts of checks and balances on unbridled power in any one legislative chamber.

Which some may view as a good thing.