If we vote for Brexit what happens

savepete

michaels wrote: »

Unusual to hear a pro remain person being honest about the fact that the EU is anti-democratic and that is why they are in favour. Thank you

That the EU is anti-democratic is Farage's line. Unfortunately, the UK has been one of the forces hindering strengthening the position of the European Parliament. Instead most important decisions are negotiated and taken by the European governments. These state governmets are democratically elected. Could you please substantiate Farage's "anti-democratic" claim?

ruggedtoast

michaels wrote: »

Unusual to hear a pro remain person being honest about the fact that the EU is anti-democratic and that is why they are in favour. Thank you

I disagree with Leave voting Tory supporters in every way so I am not too bothered if your gerrymandered 1st past the post system lets you down on occasion.

michaels

savepete wrote: »

That the EU is anti-democratic is Farage's line. Unfortunately, the UK has been one of the forces hindering strengthening the position of the European Parliament. Instead most important decisions are negotiated and taken by the European governments. These state governmets are democratically elected. Could you please substantiate Farage's "anti-democratic" claim?

The UK population might not want the one million plus migrants that Germany has allowed to enter in the past 12 months to have the right to work in the UK. Please let me know which election I can cast a vote in that would show my dissatisfaction with this policy that has a direct impact on the UK?

CLAPTON

savepete wrote: »

That the EU is anti-democratic is Farage's line. Unfortunately, the UK has been one of the forces hindering strengthening the position of the European Parliament. Instead most important decisions are negotiated and taken by the European governments. These state governmets are democratically elected. Could you please substantiate Farage's "anti-democratic" claim?

clearly there are different democratic standards and o some extent many are fairly equal if different.

My own personal take on the issue is whether it seems that people can 'engage' with the process and whether they 'feel' they can change/influence the outcomes.

In the Uk I do believe politicians do back down and do change direction directly as a result of public opinion but I see no evidence of this in Europe.

But in the end if you feel that the EU is democratic for you then that's fine for you.

CLAPTON

ruggedtoast wrote: »

I disagree with Leave voting Tory supporters in every way so I am not too bothered if your gerrymandered 1st past the post system lets you down on occasion.

yes but you have always believed that the USSR had a truely democratic system as it had no Tories.

ruggedtoast

I don't really know what the Leave people expect to happen in Brexit. On the whole "Leavers" are Conservative, pro capitalist, Tory voting neo liberal proponents of big business.

The Conservative, pro capitalist, neo liberal, representatives of big business are telling you that if you want to protect a system that you appear to like then the UK needs to stay within the EU.

This is why as a Corbynite I am only reluctantly in favour of staying in. Whether in or out, it will be Osborne and his ilk deciding what happens for the next 5 years. At least if we vote to Remain we have the buffer that the EU is relatively slow moving and a, hopefully Corbyn led, government in 2020 can start to look at the UK offering leadership rather than resistance internationally, for once.

antrobus

angrypirate wrote: »

I never voted for Merkel or Holland. In fact, I couldnt vote for them. Yet i got them. Regardless whether or not you voted for your local MP, they were elected by a simply majority in your constituency. ...

I think you'll find that both Merkell or Hollande were also elected by a simple majority in their constituencies. Although in the case of Hollande it would be a pretty big constituency.

Unless you happen to be on the electoral roll in Witney you wouldn't have been able to have voted for David Cameron either, and yet you've got him.

mayonnaise

A Brexit myth of Brussels (mis)rule
Good or bad, imaginative or dull, the important decisions have been taken at home

There are significant areas of British life in which EU laws take precedence. Most of these set the business norms and standards that all nations must observe to prosper in a globalised economy. Some establish levels of protection for workers; others, environmental controls. Elsewhere, Britain has opted out — from the euro, open borders and some elements of legal and judicial affairs.

This is not a nation that has surrendered democracy or self-government. On the things that really count — taxes and welfare, war and peace, national security — the shape and direction of policy has been set by Westminster politicians. Some choices have been bad, some good, but all have been British.

https://next.ft.com/content/3a102dfc-2281-11e6-9d4d-c11776a5124d
Brought to you by Project Fact.

michaels

This is not a nation that has surrendered democracy or self-government. On the things that really count — taxes and welfare, war and peace, national security — the shape and direction of policy has been set by Westminster politicians. Some choices have been bad, some good, but all have been British

Not all taxes of course with VAT harmonization and probably corporation taxes soon (taxes...)

And of course not who benefits should be paid to (...and welfare)

And of course not who should be allowed into the country if they have an EU passport (national security)

gfplux

There is a powerful article in the Guardian today about immigration.
This should only be read by people intending to vote stay.
Brexitears should not bother.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/26/migration-leave-campaign-eu-referendum