If we vote for Brexit what happens

Rinoa

Generali wrote: »

It seems to me that the big problem keeps changing.

Maybe that's because there are so may 'big problems' it's difficult to know which is the biggest of them all.

Rinoa

Generali wrote: »

The reality in a set-up like the EU, the European Commission holds the power on a day-to-day basis but can only use that power if it doesn't overstep the mark.

If a number of MEPs have concerns about an area of EU law, or a couple of Governments do then they will make representations, formally or informally, and through that process member Governments and MEPs will be able to influence the EC.

Fair enough. Myself I prefer a government UK people can elect. They do what they want for 5 years and then we get to choose whether they are elected again.

We simply aren't able to vote for an EU government.

angrypirate

Back on the original thread topic, what would happen in the event of Brexit
http://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2016/04/daniel-hannan-heres-what-happens-when-britain-votes-to-leave.html
A couple of more interesting paragraphs

A vote to leave won’t start any countdowns. Ministers would simply be under instruction to find departure terms that suit Britain – and, indeed, that suit the rest of the EU. They would presumably begin by holding informal talks with the Brussels institutions and the other member states. Then, when the broad parameters were agreed, they would begin formal negotiations. These might be held under Article 50, the clause introduced by the Lisbon Treaty which obliges the EU to reach a trade deal with a departing state within two years; or they might be held under a different intergovernmental structure. It might be possible to reach a mutually beneficial deal very quickly. Or the other EU members might prefer, for reasons of administrative convenience, for the new arrangements to come into effect in 2019 when they choose their new Parliament and Commission, so as not to have to recalculate their voting weights twice.

The point is that nothing would be agreed until both sides were content.

And

Whether independence comes into effect in 2017, 2018 or 2019, what will it look like? Well, the first day after Brexit will look pretty much like the previous day. All our existing arrangements will remain in place until one side or the other chooses to abandon them. We’d begin from a position of having all the same technical standards as the other EU states, all the reciprocal deals on social security, all the trade deals. What Brexit means is the freedom to start altering those deals.

Generali

Rinoa wrote: »

Fair enough. Myself I prefer a government UK people can elect. They do what they want for 5 years and then we get to choose whether they are elected again.

We simply aren't able to vote for an EU government.

In the UK you don't vote for most of the people that govern you. Most laws passed these days enshrine the ability for 'Ministers' to be able to change things at will. The reality is that the Civil Service recommend a change and, unless the Minister has a particular bee in his bonnet, she will just sign it off.

Discretionary powers are granted to local authority workers, teachers, policemen, social workers and if they abuse them it's basically impossible to do anything about it. The police in Yorkshire made mistakes that lead to the deaths of almost 100 people yet escaped any sort of censure for decades.

I completely agree that there are grave problems with the way we are governed and the powers that we grant to people, elected and not, over us. The EU is a symptom not a cause and getting rid of the EU won't free the British, it just swaps one set of oppressors for another.

CLAPTON

Generali wrote: »

In the UK you don't vote for most of the people that govern you. Most laws passed these days enshrine the ability for 'Ministers' to be able to change things at will. The reality is that the Civil Service recommend a change and, unless the Minister has a particular bee in his bonnet, she will just sign it off.

Discretionary powers are granted to local authority workers, teachers, policemen, social workers and if they abuse them it's basically impossible to do anything about it. The police in Yorkshire made mistakes that lead to the deaths of almost 100 people yet escaped any sort of censure for decades.

I completely agree that there are grave problems with the way we are governed and the powers that we grant to people, elected and not, over us. The EU is a symptom not a cause and getting rid of the EU won't free the British, it just swaps one set of oppressors for another.

brexit will make the steps to democratic change a lot shorter and quicker that at present. to that extent it would be a significant improvement in democratic accountability.

I would say there is precisely zero groups of countries in the world who seek to copy the EU system of governance.

BobQ

Rinoa wrote: »

No surprise there is no comment from the EU.

In the UK you could ask the govt department responsible and receive a written reply. Or if it was sufficiently important the minister responsible would come to the house and MP's could ask questions.

In the EU there appears to be faceless bureaucrats running the show. No one knows who is responsible for making the decisions, how the decisions are made, who decides if the UK is to be prosecuted, who are the judges.

It's akin to a despot ruler issuing diktats that must be obeyed.

"It's all democratic", the remainers will say. "We have a democratic vote to elect an MEP every 5 years". But in reality individual MEP's have zero influence. Can anyone give an example of a UK MEP ever influencing EU law?

You are getting paranoid!

The EU sees no need to comment because it is dealing with the issue by asking the UK for information about the matter.

BobQ

Generali wrote: »

I completely agree that there are grave problems with the way we are governed and the powers that we grant to people, elected and not, over us. The EU is a symptom not a cause and getting rid of the EU won't free the British, it just swaps one set of oppressors for another.

I can just hear the Brexiteers say "at least they would be our oppressors"

Rinoa

BobQ wrote: »

You are getting paranoid!

The EU sees no need to comment because it is dealing with the issue by asking the UK for information about the matter.

Or maybe they just believe they can do as they wish without explanation. Lets face it, the exact same people will be running the show after the next EU elections choose who we vote for.

Apparently it's called pooled democracy.

CLAPTON

BobQ wrote: »

I can just hear the Brexiteers say "at least they would be our oppressors"

No, they would say 'at least we can directly vote them out' and indeed do so.

Conrad

Generali wrote: »

getting rid of the EU won't free the British, it just swaps one set of oppressors for another.

I'll take my own Government over being governed by old Men in Brussels thanks.

This is the people VS Cameron’s establishment chums, Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers, The IMF and the rest of the ruling class that have seen the rich get richer, taken us into pointless wars and promised us we’d fail unless we joined the Euro