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If we vote for Brexit what happens
Comments
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indeed true
we can add of course -
-the opportunity for the young people never to be able to live in a decent family sized property (London &SE)
How is this the fault of the EU. It is wealthy foreigners (including many Chinese and Russians) that have forced property prices up.-to continue to have depressed wages due to the flood of young immigrants
Immigrants generally contribute to the economy. It is those who think the world owes them a living that have difficulties. They just blame immigrants as a convenient reason. My experience is that ut is not the young who complain about immigrants.
-to enjoy a low productifvity economy for the foreseeable future
What has this to do with the EU? (Apart from the generic solution that its all the fault of immigrants.) Productivity is driven by those who employ people to do low productvity jobs.-to pay higher taxes or more accept cuts to fund the huge costs of rebuilding the necessary infrastructure to cope with the population increase.
What has this to do with the EU. Immigrants generally pay towards the cost of building infrastructure. It is those who evade their taxes and failures by Governments to build the infrastructure who create that problem.-to stoically accept the increased delays on transport
-similarly to accept the decline in access to the NHS
If there is a demand for transport, why is it not being provided? How is that an EU issue.
The NHS is being starved of funding by Government policies. Comparable EU nations enjoy some very good healthcare despite being flooded by all those nasty immigrants (many Brits among them). Our NHS would be even worse if we did not have immigrants to staff it. Again a failure of Governments to train doctors, nurses etc.
Your view is simplistic: all problems in the UK are due to the EU and to immigrants. When we are out of the EU who will you blame then for the bus queues and house prices. The rich Chinese will still be buying up accommodation in London and Cameron or BoJo will not stop them doing so.Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.0 -
Well, our prosperity is rivaled and indeed surpassed by many countries not in the EU.
It says a lot about the EU free trade area when we sell more stuff to countries with tariffs.
So the fact that we generally import £9bn more than we export is the EU's fault. Our trade deficit is down to us not the EU.
Most EU nations have a positive trade balance with the rest of the world.Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.0 -
Furthermore;
Canada and Australia were key players in a recent global initiative to tackle online child abuse. They hold seats on various global environmental bodies - this idea they have no influence and are impotent is farce.
As was the UK.Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.0 -
The EU vision is perhaps that a block of free trade and movement will be richer together than alone.
A collective of about 0.5 billion being able to deal with world problems and get economic and political and military advantages an order of magnitude more together than alone.
To continue your logic Australia, Japan, S Korea, Canada and the rest are 'alone', do not collaborate and have insufficient input globally?
Seriously? Their citizens must be so miserable given this dreadful outcome...
Lets pray for these poor unfortunate souls.
These nations take part at a global level via all the big economic and environmental bodies. I can list them if you want, but given you're a man of evidence you will already have all the facts to hand....0 -
To continue your logic Australia, Japan, S Korea, Canada and the rest are 'alone', do not collaborate and have insufficient input globally?
Seriously? Their citizens must be so miserable given this dreadful outcome...
Lets pray for these poor unfortunate souls.
These nations take part at a global level via all the big economic and environmental bodies. I can list them if you want, but given you're a man of evidence you will already have all the facts to hand....
Austalia or Canada or S Koria play a very small part in the world relative to say the USA. The combined EU will be closer to america on the world stage while a fragmented 27 maybe more wil be closer to Australia0 -
As was the UK.
Yes, independent nations collaborate across borders all the time, and yet we're told by fearful unimaginative Remainiacs that outside of the EU an independent Britain will suffer some dreadful fate unable to properly co-operate and work with others.
We're not saying 'lets be like Canada' as Generali tries to imply, we merely point out lots of prospering independent nations DO co-operate across borders on matters of trade, the environment and security. We too of course can do all this and HAVE more influence in the world not less, by being our own representatives at all the global bodies.
Plus we save the c£1bn pm net EU membership fee and as a bonus regain full democracy
NOTE> those that say Parliament still makes 85% of our laws - well in that case we deffo wont miss the 15% EU law meddling0 -
Austalia or Canada or S Koria play a very small part in the world relative to say the USA. The combined EU will be closer to america on the world stage while a fragmented 27 maybe more wil be closer to Australia
Can you point me to a large upwelling of sentiment in Australia or the other prospering independent nations of citizens decrying their supposed lack of global influence?0 -
How is this the fault of the EU. It is wealthy foreigners (including many Chinese and Russians) that have forced property prices up.
Immigrants generally contribute to the economy. It is those who think the world owes them a living that have difficulties. They just blame immigrants as a convenient reason. My experience is that ut is not the young who complain about immigrants.
-
What has this to do with the EU? (Apart from the generic solution that its all the fault of immigrants.) Productivity is driven by those who employ people to do low productvity jobs.
What has this to do with the EU. Immigrants generally pay towards the cost of building infrastructure. It is those who evade their taxes and failures by Governments to build the infrastructure who create that problem.
If there is a demand for transport, why is it not being provided? How is that an EU issue.
The NHS is being starved of funding by Government policies. Comparable EU nations enjoy some very good healthcare despite being flooded by all those nasty immigrants (many Brits among them). Our NHS would be even worse if we did not have immigrants to staff it. Again a failure of Governments to train doctors, nurses etc.
Your view is simplistic: all problems in the UK are due to the EU and to immigrants. When we are out of the EU who will you blame then for the bus queues and house prices. The rich Chinese will still be buying up accommodation in London and Cameron or BoJo will not stop them doing so.
They are all direct predicted consequences of large scale immigration; as members of the EU we can't control the number of EU immigrants.
The price of 'normal' London /SE properties is not a consequence of rich Chinese (that may be true for the prime location) but rather the weight of 100,000 people per year moving into London many of whom are immigrant : over 3 million of the 8 million Londoners are foreign born (approximate figures), it takes a fairly extreme person to argue such numbers have no effect on the availability and price of property for native born people.
There is no prospect of the situation improving with the continued growth of the population due to immigration.
The wage issue is that the supply of cheap labour holds wages down and reduces the need of employers to invest to improve productivity; 100 % of economists would agree.
The facts are that the infrastructure has not been built to cater for the increased number of people: this has yet to be funded and built: without the 8 million foreigners there would be no requirement to build much of this infrastructure.
The figures that claim immigration is a net benefit do not include these infrastructure costs that are directly caused by immigration.
More transport, more hospital etc cost money which would not be needed if the population were smaller.
Presumably you would want to fund this by more taxation and more borrowing: probably not a view that Cameron will be emphasising.
Only a moron would believe that all problems in the UK are due to immigration : that is patently untrue.
However this debate is about the one-off opportunity to take control of immigration so it is appropriate to discuss that issue as part of the EU stay/go debate.
Large scale immigration brings virtually no benefits and lots of
drawbacks.
The real losers are the young in the SE who have poorer wages, poorer job opportunities and smaller and poorer housing than would be the case with a smaller population:
the winners I guess are people like me asset rich and plenty of labour around but that's another debate0 -
An independent Britain will have a seat at many global bodies to include;
The UN
NATO
The G20
G7
FVEY (critical intelligence sharing of 5 nations - the EU need access to this - the UK gives them this)
WTO
WHO
Codex Alimentarius
IPCC and all manner of other environmental bodies
The idea we will have no influence is a pitiful argument, we're not pip squeaks0 -
Did you not see the link that viva posted?
TBH I think that Mr Cameron raises some interesting points about the lack of a vision for the UK outside the EU and TBH I've not seen too much detail about what the plan is on Brexit beyond 'it's okay because Norway' or 'it's okay because Canada'.
I agree. The problem is that the Leavers have a range of views on what Exit might mean. They are united by the message "we want out" but have a range of reasons why they want out.
I would be interested if those wanting to leave would explain their vision for what the UK would be like 10 years onFew people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.0
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