If we vote for Brexit what happens

cells

CLAPTON wrote: »

no, if you are wrong you hurt the me, my family and the people of the UK

Clearly what I was saying was that if we dont know if it will be a positive or negative for us (you think one I think the other). If you then take the view that the migrants who come here willingly benefit then its a simple equation where the total goodness is increased by allowing the +1%

by importing lots of people presumably you would agree that you do harm to their country of origin, on the basis that a reduction of population is harmful

Without the +1% the uk would be fine. With the +1% the majority benefits (be it +1% in babies or migrants) and their lot would be better.


As I said previously we fundamentally disagree on if +1% is a net positive or a net negative. There doesnt seem to be much progress beyond that point

CLAPTON

cells wrote: »

Clearly what I was saying was that if we dont know if it will be a positive or negative for us (you think one I think the other). If you then take the view that the migrants who come here willingly benefit then its a simple equation where the total goodness is increased by allowing the +1%



Without the +1% the uk would be fine. With the +1% the majority benefits (be it +1% in babies or migrants) and their lot would be better.


As I said previously we fundamentally disagree on if +1% is a net positive or a net negative. There doesnt seem to be much progress beyond that point

Do the remaining people of the country of origin benefit from the fall in population?

But let's have no more about cousins etc when your primary concern is your own self interest ; at best you are happy for some people to benefit after you have feasted at the trough first.

cells

CLAPTON wrote: »

Do the remaining people of the country of origin benefit from the fall in population?

It depends on their demographics and stage of economic development. If the migrant is from say nigeria which could well balloon to a billion people then I suspect its a drop in the ocean for them to lose 500k people in a ballooning population buts its a lot bigger an impact for us to gain 500k people.

Also there are other factors like funds sent back home helping that nation buy economic accelerator equipment and machines from the developed nations.

Plus if you think of say an equal country to the UK if say 100,000 brits go to France and 100,000 French come to the uk it could well be a win win for all. The french migrants here might have a skillset more in demand and the english migrants in france might have a skillset more in demand.

The same arguments can be made for internal migration. Is there a benefit for movement of people between London and Birmingham?

But let's have no more about cousins etc when your primary concern is your own self interest ; at best you are happy for some people to benefit after you have feasted at the trough first.

I never denied that I care more about my immediate family than my distant family. That is natural, the surprising bit was why you found it so difficult to admit the same. It was never a trick question.

However that does not mean I dont care for others it also does not mean I will not take 1 unit of pain to help another 'cousin' avoid 100 units of pain. Its why I dont mind the foreign aid budget if it is effectively spent on proper development aid.


so I am at a loss to your 'feasted at the trough first'. It seems to be just a stupid attack

Generali

cells wrote: »

my point is lets do it, anyone of foreign decent going back 10 generations should be given a free weekend holiday to France all at the same time.

Before they know whats up we will flood the eurotunnel and hire a few Olympic pole vaulters to push away any boats that try to get near

with 7 of the 8.5 million londoners gone you and I can buy the now vacated homes for two ha penny. productivity will increase and wages will go up because...well we know they will

:T

If you kicked out everyone that was an immigrant back 10 generations I doubt you'd even make 500, 000. You'd be able to turn Charing Cross back into swampland!

cells

Generali wrote: »

If you kicked out everyone that was an immigrant back 10 generations I doubt you'd even make 500, 000. You'd be able to turn Charing Cross back into swampland!

its an interesting idea. if all the countries did it then we might find that the UK actually has a lot more people in it. Thats to say its been a big net exporter of people over the last 10 generations.

For a start america would need to send back some 300 million people to the rWorld of which some 30-40 million reckon they are from UK desent. Also dont some half of Australians think they are from the uk bloodline

chewmylegoff

CLAPTON wrote: »

so stop the rubbish about descents and your nonsense 'cousins' argument and stick to the truth : basically you see it as in your own personal self interest for the UK to grow : no moral nonsense just normal greed.

I see it as in my own self interest and of the majority of the people of the UK, to restrict the population of the UK for the many reasons I have already outlined.

Do you believe that leaving the EU will result in a tighter restriction of immigration? If so, why do you think that it will since we still have very high immigration from non EU countries which doesn't seem to have been brought down despite the government specifically trying to reduce it. As far as I understand when Romania and Bulgaria joined the EU it made little difference to the numbers coming from those countries.

CLAPTON

Generali wrote: »

If you kicked out everyone that was an immigrant back 10 generations I doubt you'd even make 500, 000. You'd be able to turn Charing Cross back into swampland!

only total morons or the fools or knaves would even discuss such a stupid suggestion.

CLAPTON

chewmylegoff wrote: »

Do you believe that leaving the EU will result in a tighter restriction of immigration? If so, why do you think that it will since we still have very high immigration from non EU countries which doesn't seem to have been brought down despite the government specifically trying to reduce it. As far as I understand when Romania and Bulgaria joined the EU it made little difference to the numbers coming from those countries.

It's quite easy to find out the (a low) estimate of the numbers of Romanians and Bulgarians if you are interested.
(hint use the internet and a search engine).
Mind you, I did listen to Bulgarian Minister saying he knew of not one Bulgarian who had been rejected by the UK even before the border was 'opened'.

Do I think that leaving the EU will reduce immigration ? I don't know but at least we will have the option of reducing EU migration which we don't have now.
Another government, another day perhaps.

vivatifosi

chewmylegoff wrote: »

Do you believe that leaving the EU will result in a tighter restriction of immigration? If so, why do you think that it will since we still have very high immigration from non EU countries which doesn't seem to have been brought down despite the government specifically trying to reduce it. As far as I understand when Romania and Bulgaria joined the EU it made little difference to the numbers coming from those countries.

Quite. Look how many Russians are in the UK. That's definitely not in the EU and per Wikipedia there may be up to 150,000 people born in Russia in London alone. For sure, some will be ethnic Russians from the former Soviet Baltics, but far from all. I hear Russian spoken quite regularly. They certainly aren't all oligarchs either.

Generali

CLAPTON wrote: »

only total morons or the fools or knaves would even discuss such a stupid suggestion.

TBH it's not much more ridiculous than this Anglo Saxon paradise you seem to think will result from leaving the EU.