If we vote for Brexit what happens

cells

Rinoa wrote: »

Excellent question.

I doubt you'll receive an satisfactory answer. The richer countries want newer countries so they can sell them stuff. The new countries join because they can access EU funds.

The EU is simply a hotchpotch of 27 differing governments all trying to secure the best deal they can for their own countries.

And it's not working.

The EU vision is perhaps that a block of free trade and movement will be richer together than alone.

I also suspect long term the vision for the EU is that it will become like the USA. A united states of Europe where possibly in the very long term English will become the primary language and its people will slowly see themselves as Europeans rather than germans or french or polish. A collective of about 0.5 billion being able to deal with world problems and get economic and political and military advantages an order of magnitude more together than alone.


And the vision for the UK is..... outside of Europe we can stop EU immigrants coming here.....a grand vision for the UK...

CLAPTON

cells wrote: »

The EU vision is perhaps that a block of free trade and movement will be richer together than alone.

I also suspect long term the vision for the EU is that it will become like the USA. A united states of Europe where possibly in the very long term English will become the primary language and its people will slowly see themselves as Europeans rather than germans or french or polish. A collective of about 0.5 billion being able to deal with world problems and get economic and political and military advantages an order of magnitude more together than alone.


And the vision for the UK is..... outside of Europe we can stop EU immigrants coming here.....a grand vision for the UK...

I see your vision of the EU is to remain a white chrisitian military block excluding the peoples of the rest of the world (including their near neighbours round the med. )
Europeans only wanted in your utopia.

cells

CLAPTON wrote: »

I see your vision of the EU is to remain a white chrisitian military block excluding the peoples of the rest of the world (including their near neighbours round the med. )
Europeans only wanted in your utopia.

yes it will likely be mostly white non believers (or at least non worshippers).

We wont totally exclude others I think we could allow ~2.5 million in per year maybe even 5 million per year which is a lot more than the 0 the brexiters likely seek

There is also the very long term possibility that the EU could let turkey in but I can only see that happening if Turkey becomes richer per capita than the average EU nation and if they become more non worshipper than they currently are.

Maybe in the distant future the USA and the USE could also form a free trade free movement block to take the block towards 1 billion

CLAPTON

cells wrote: »

yes it will likely be mostly white non believers (or at least non worshippers).

We wont totally exclude others I think we could allow ~2.5 million in per year maybe even 5 million per year which is a lot more than the 0 the brexiters likely seek

There is also the very long term possibility that the EU could let turkey in but I can only see that happening if Turkey becomes richer per capita than the average EU nation and if they become more non worshipper than they currently are.

Maybe in the distant future the USA and the USE could also form a free trade free movement block to take the block towards 1 billion

no real idea what you are saying but it would seem to be a white caucasian vaguely anglo-saxon world domination phantasy to me

you would be a better person not being part of this nonsense.

leveller2911

cells wrote: »

We wont totally exclude others I think we could allow ~2.5 million in per year maybe even 5 million per year which is a lot more than the 0 the brexiters likely seek

I can only assume you've had a long day at work after posting that tosh..........

CLAPTON

mayonnaise wrote: »

Fair enough. You said medium term.


Now we established there is not going to be a significant enlargement anytime soon, I will refer to my previous answer:

I don't need any grand visions for the EU. I just look back and see how we have developed over the past 40 years, from an inward looking Britain, the sick man of Europe in the 70's... to the confident, open, generous, tolerant and prosperous nation we are today.

I guess anyone less inward looking that yourself, might observe many countries have changed in the last 45 years
some sadly are less confident, open, generous, tolerant that we were all that time ago.

leveller2911

mayonnaise wrote: »

Fair enough. You said medium term.


Now we established there is not going to be a significant enlargement anytime soon, I will refer to my previous answer:

I don't need any grand visions for the EU. I just look back and see how we have developed over the past 40 years, from an inward looking Britain, the sick man of Europe in the 70's... to the confident, open, generous, tolerant and prosperous nation we are today.

You obviously find the question far to prickly to actually answer which is your prerogative.

You mention Britain being the "sick man of Europe" but in the past 40 years of the UK being a member of the EU the UK has been a net contributor to the EU for no less than 39 of those 40 years.

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

I think you will agree that's pretty good for the "sick man of Europe"...

I'm def a Brexiter and far more outward looking than any of the insular little EU bigots who are afraid to go out into the big wide world and trade.:D

chucknorris

you can all vote for Brexit now, I have just invested in my 2016/17 ISA, so you don't need to wait any longer, unless of course you also want me to invest in my SIPP before you crash the markets.

Money_saving_maniac

leveller2911 wrote: »

He also chooses to ignore the total lack of vision that the EU has for the future even with the UK as a member.

Where does the EU expansion stop and when do the people of the EU start to see real growth and increases in living standards for those countries such as the UK who are net contributors to the EU.

Its a serious question that is avoided at all costs by the EU and those in the remain camp.


Like it or not Turkey will become a member so will we also see the Ukraine become a member in the medium term?.Are the taxpayers of the UK expected to subsidise the peoples of Turkey,Ukraine,Albania,Macedonia,Montenegro,Serbia,Bosnia and Kosovo etc if so aren't we entitled to know?.

There's a common link with all of those countries looking to join the EU which is they are all poor countries.

Countries that will need decades of EU money to bring them up to date in the same way that Poland has enjoyed EU subsidies which between 2004-2020 will amount to more money than was spent to re-build the whole of Europe post WW2.

Tabatha and Tarquin will be fine as will all of the affluent middle class in the UK but its the working class and the poor who will be the victims in this with wage suppression,increased pressures on the NHS,Schools,roads and lower living standards to pay more and more money into the EU who then hand out free money to every new EU member.


So I ask again what is the vision for the EU?.

I think you probably already know the answer to the vision for the EU, because it is quite well spelled out although the political class do not want to talk too openly about it, because they know that the voters do not want it.

The vision is total monetary and political union, because you can't have the monetary union without the political union. The vision is enlargement by any means. (Oooh the gravy train just keeps on giving) and the transfer of money from the richer countries to the poorer countries.

That is why Britain and Germany and France pay in to the fund, so that it can be sent off to the poorer countries.
If a country or two gets broken in the process (eg Greece) then tough luck for both richer and poorer populations. The richer population will continue to have to transfer money to the poorer, and the poorer populations will continue to see not one penny of it in their purses. That's because the EU is built in a corporate mind set, which is why it is so anti democracy.

The EU is just about to ban a certain water plant from the whole of the EU, a pond plant that cannot survive the winter in the UK, on the basis that it presents a threat to EU wildlife. It is invasive in Egypt. Perhaps potentially it could be a problem in Turkey. It's not even an issue in Greece. Rather makes one wonder.

Just as an aside, the EU does have the powers to ban things regionally, so if they wished they could ban it in Southern Europe while allowing it in Northern Europe. But that is never the direction the EU wishes to play in. In their perfect world, we would be reduced to good little consumers, and the national parliaments to the equivalent of Regional Councils.

The EU already communicates directly with local councils in order to get them to do what they wish.

The whole structure is based on a corporate mentality, the EU is the equivalent of 'Global' ie sets the vision, the policies and the financial targets and the countries are reduced to 'subsidiaries' ie do what you are told and pay up. Like a huge company, it will go on expanding because its reason for existence is because it exists. The damn thing won't end until we have funded every country in the same way as Poland. And it will continue expanding.

Noting against the Romanians, but do you really believe they should be in the EU? Ukraine is joining in all but name, so we can fund them.

You could regard it as becoming the European inorganic version of the United States or you could look at it as becoming the Tower of Babel.

Either way, the only perspective the EU elite have on voters is as the producers and consumers, with no passion and no soul. Bread and circuses is the cry.

I won't even start on TTIP.

The problem with those who want to stay in the EU is that they think it will remain broadly the same as it is now. Far from it, very far from it.

CLAPTON

mayonnaise wrote: »

Yes, we are a net contributor. Do you think we should be a net beneficiary?



I'm all for trading in the big wide world. Therefore I'm happy to report our non-EU exports have been booming....while being in the EU.

of course if the graph was inverted you would, of course, use that to 'prove' how wonderful the EU is.