If we vote for Brexit what happens

Generali

gfplux wrote: »

Well big fat silence after that posting.

Did you not see the link that viva posted?

TBH I think that Mr Cameron raises some interesting points about the lack of a vision for the UK outside the EU and TBH I've not seen too much detail about what the plan is on Brexit beyond 'it's okay because Norway' or 'it's okay because Canada'.

CLAPTON

setmefree2 wrote: »

Clapton, with deepest respect, change the record.....

....we get it - you're kids can't afford a house .....

You, and many other EU acolytes, seem to be in total denial that decent family sized housing is a serious issue for the young in London and the SE:
so obviously the issue is worth repeating occasionally

leveller2911

Generali wrote: »

Did you not see the link that viva posted?

TBH I think that Mr Cameron raises some interesting points about the lack of a vision for the UK outside the EU and TBH I've not seen too much detail about what the plan is on Brexit beyond 'it's okay because Norway' or 'it's okay because Canada'.

He also chooses to ignore the total lack of vision that the EU has for the future even with the UK as a member.

Where does the EU expansion stop and when do the people of the EU start to see real growth and increases in living standards for those countries such as the UK who are net contributors to the EU.

Its a serious question that is avoided at all costs by the EU and those in the remain camp.


Like it or not Turkey will become a member so will we also see the Ukraine become a member in the medium term?.Are the taxpayers of the UK expected to subsidise the peoples of Turkey,Ukraine,Albania,Macedonia,Montenegro,Serbia,Bosnia and Kosovo etc if so aren't we entitled to know?.

There's a common link with all of those countries looking to join the EU which is they are all poor countries.

Countries that will need decades of EU money to bring them up to date in the same way that Poland has enjoyed EU subsidies which between 2004-2020 will amount to more money than was spent to re-build the whole of Europe post WW2.

Tabatha and Tarquin will be fine as will all of the affluent middle class in the UK but its the working class and the poor who will be the victims in this with wage suppression,increased pressures on the NHS,Schools,roads and lower living standards to pay more and more money into the EU who then hand out free money to every new EU member.


So I ask again what is the vision for the EU?.

CLAPTON

mayonnaise wrote: »

There is no plan whatsoever to fast-track Turkey (or the Ukraine for that matter) into the EU.
The EU president has said so recently:
http://www.politico.eu/article/jean-claude-juncker-turkeys-not-ready-for-eu-membership/

Just the usual scaremongering from UKIP to appeal to the narrow minded Little England Supremacists and their fear of 'the other'. And I see it's working.

Why do YOU describe discussing Turkeys entry to the EU as scaremongering?
Is it because you are frighten by the possibility of the christian white EU28 club having an 'other' joining?
Are you deeply relieved that Juncker has ruled it out for 10 years?

Shakethedisease

Poll time yaaay ! Today.

ICM :- Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
Remain 44% (-1)
Leave 43% (n/c)
the Scottish subsample figures are Remain 60%, Leave 28%.

YouGov :- Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
Remain 39% (-1)
Leave 38% (+1)
The Scottish subsample figures are : Remain 51%, Leave 32%

leveller2911

mayonnaise wrote: »

There is no plan whatsoever to fast-track Turkey (or the Ukraine for that matter) into the EU.
The EU president has said so recently:
http://www.politico.eu/article/jean-claude-juncker-turkeys-not-ready-for-eu-membership/

Just the usual scaremongering from UKIP to appeal to the narrow minded Little England Supremacists and their fear of 'the other'. And I see it's working.

Please Quote anywhere in my post where I mentioned the EU "fast tracking" Turkey into the EU. If we vote to stay in then we will need to have a discussion about Turkey and the rest of the expected future accession countries.


Choose to ignore the rest of my post but the issues I raised are valid concerns if you wish.

So do you have the answer to what the "EU vision is" ?.

Can I just say that your post about "Little England Supremacists" is quite pathetic and is just trolled out by the Remain camp to try and stifle debate rather than address the real issues but if you really can't come up with answer then maybe better to refrain from posting at all........;)

CLAPTON

Generali wrote: »

Did you not see the link that viva posted?

TBH I think that Mr Cameron raises some interesting points about the lack of a vision for the UK outside the EU and TBH I've not seen too much detail about what the plan is on Brexit beyond 'it's okay because Norway' or 'it's okay because Canada'.

its not clear to me why a democratic libertarian mixed economy country needs a 'vision'for the future : is that the same as a grand economic and social 'plan' designed and managed by the government?

Rinoa

leveller2911 wrote: »

So I ask again what is the vision for the EU?.

Excellent question.

I doubt you'll receive an satisfactory answer. The richer countries want newer countries so they can sell them stuff. The new countries join because they can access EU funds.

The EU is simply a hotchpotch of 27 differing governments all trying to secure the best deal they can for their own countries.

And it's not working.

BobQ

CLAPTON wrote: »

So we both celebrate the opportunity for the people of the UK to vote on whether to stay or leave the EU.
An opportunity that was previously denied by the battles between the vile Blair and Brown who lied to the people of the UK which was a total distraction of democratic process.
But that's democracy.

Not really. I have no problem with a democratic vote but I do not believe it was necessary. Another example of Conservative Party internal politics driving the decision to hold the vote.

Blair and Brown did nothing wrong regarding the EU. Thatcher signed up to Maastricht Treaty which made the changes that most opposed to the EU object to. It was the Conservatives that created an economic mess by taking us into the ERM while it was Brown that opposed joining the Euro.

If people vote to leave so be it, but unless its conclusive, I doubt it will be the end of it once the people who voted for it begin to realise the consequences of the decision. I will just remind them that have the result they wanted and so must live with it.

CLAPTON

BobQ wrote: »

Not really. I have no problem with a democratic vote but I do not believe it was necessary. Another example of Conservative Party internal politics driving the decision to hold the vote.

Blair and Brown did nothing wrong regarding the EU. Thatcher signed up to Maastricht Treaty which made the changes that most opposed to the EU object to. It was the Conservatives that created an economic mess by taking us into the ERM while it was Brown that opposed joining the Euro.

If people vote to leave so be it, but unless its conclusive, I doubt it will be the end of it once the people who voted for it begin to realise the consequences of the decision. I will just remind them that have the result they wanted and so must live with it.

The left is usually in favour of democracy in principle but often feels it's best not to actually ask the people.
Blair promised a EU referendum in 2004.

I have always given Brown full credit for refusing to join the Euro even if it what entirely to do with internal labour party politics :
mind you I see internal party squabbles as normal and healthy and is part of what distinguishes us from totalitarian parties.

fair minded people will recall that Labour was in favour of joining the disastrous ERM just like most were in favour of joining the euro just like most of the LibDems, CBI, CEOs, media, BBC, Unis etc etc.