If we vote for Brexit what happens

Thrugelmir

always_sunny wrote: »

Which country has expressed concerns that EU FoM is a problem? Or is that in regards to refugee migration? (these are distinct things)

Mass migration of people creates problems on many levels. No other country within the EU has had to cope with with the number of people moving under FoM as the UK has. The real world cannot react to the immediate requirements that such change brings. We had in instance the other day where 3 Bulgarian families were found to be renting a 3 bed semi. 23 people in total. That's more like the living conditions in the East End of London a 100 years ago. Rather than in the UK in the 21st.

gfplux

wotsthat wrote: »

There are a couple of reasons for that

(1) You, like most of us, have paid scant attention to how the EU functions or how the UK influences policy. Of course, we're all over it now - I wish we'd been so interested in all things Europe a few decades ago. On here I've even seen a German local election result scrutinised to assess its impact on EU policy. Too little too late.

(2) The UK has been generally supportive of EU policy. It's not as if the EU has forced us to give up our first born although I understand some are upset they're limited to buying vacuum cleaners with the power of only two fully grown horses.

You are spot on. Most Britains know a little more about the EU now that Britain is leaving which is very sad.
As the next months pass our knowledge is likely to grow further as the negotiations unfold.
what no one knows is what represents a "good deal" (that is exceptable to the 27)

I feel like I am waiting in the crowd hoping someone will shout out, "the King has no cloths"

gfplux

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Given the divergence of views and opinions. What the "EU" should be. Is perhaps the issue. Very difficult to reach agreement at a National level. Let alone across 27 sovereign states. Too much bending of the rules. Refusal to consider change if it doesn't suit. For the electorate there's no power to influence either.

Although we talk of change the actual problem for some of the British people was IMMIGRANTS from the EU and IMPOSED LAWS.

In my opinion the British did not properly differentiate between immigrants from inside or outside the EU.
And
Now we are leaving very few can actually detail those laws they were upset with. The list of bad laws should be VERY long after 44 years of membership. A list of three or four things does not surely justify the anger some people feel towards the EU?

Enterprise_1701C

gfplux wrote: »

Although we talk of change the actual problem for some of the British people was IMMIGRANTS from the EU and IMPOSED LAWS.

In my opinion the British did not properly differentiate between immigrants from inside or outside the EU.
And
Now we are leaving very few can actually detail those laws they were upset with. The list of bad laws should be VERY long after 44 years of membership. A list of three or four things does not surely justify the anger some people feel towards the EU?

What irritated me most about the eu (bear in mind I voted remain) was the fact we were blocked from deporting serious criminals back to the eu due to FOM. The eu population in our jails has been shown to be growing steadily, topped by Poles. I know we have our own serious criminals but we should not have to allow any more than necessary to remain in this country, why should we allow any foreign criminals to stay in this country? If they want to stay with their family they can all go to whatever country they are from.

To my mind this is very important and should top any list.

Yah_Boo_Sux

gfplux wrote: »

But what does that matter to Britain. When Britain was a member that was the time when Britain could use its influence to change things.
The time for Britain to criticise the EU is over.
Britain is leaving, negotiations start w/c 19th June.

Did I say it matters to Britain? No I did not.
You made a post & I responded, it is that simple - there's no need to apply your own "spin" so why do it?
FWIW my answer and yours for that matter is evidence of the self-protection and greed across the senior politicians of the EU.
It matters to those newer, smaller member states but you & yours don't care about them and their needs. Do you?

Yah_Boo_Sux

gfplux wrote: »

Although we talk of change the actual problem for some of the British people was IMMIGRANTS from the EU and IMPOSED LAWS.

In my opinion the British did not properly differentiate between immigrants from inside or outside the EU.
And
Now we are leaving very few can actually detail those laws they were upset with. The list of bad laws should be VERY long after 44 years of membership. A list of three or four things does not surely justify the anger some people feel towards the EU?

"We" ?
You're doing no more than applying your own spin again aren't you? Propaganda even. To class yourself as "we" from your home is hypocritical in the extreme if not outright blatant deception.

To your post though and you're correct in that immigration was a problem for some, as were EU laws.
Do you not recognise that those issues were just some of the many different issues that the UK public has (yes has, not had) with the EU?
One look at the attitude of senior EU politicians and the tone used when referring to Brexit has done little more than reaffirm to the British public that the choice they made was the right one.
No one likes a bully and the EU are bullies, not even subtle in demonstrating this. Not just with the UK either, look at what they are trying with Poland recently as one example. Bullies, pure and simple.

Enterprise_1701C

Yah_Boo_Sux wrote: »

"We" ?
You're doing no more than applying your own spin again aren't you? Propaganda even. To class yourself as "we" from your home is hypocritical in the extreme if not outright blatant deception.

To your post though and you're correct in that immigration was a problem for some, as were EU laws.
Do you not recognise that those issues were just some of the many different issues that the UK public has (yes has, not had) with the EU?
One look at the attitude of senior EU politicians and the tone used when referring to Brexit has done little more than reaffirm to the British public that the choice they made was the right one.
No one likes a bully and the EU are bullies, not even subtle in demonstrating this. Not just with the UK either, look at what they are trying with Poland recently as one example. Bullies, pure and simple.

Very right. I voted remain but, after the reaction the the eu, I am very glad we are leaving. I seem to recall one of the officials even saying that democracy should not be allowed.

The eu have acted like a two year old that can't get his way. Why anyone would want to stay in it is beyond me, especially seeing what they have done to Greece.

The fact they are now working on getting every member to join the euro by 2020 says it all really. They are afraid of others leaving, the euro is designed to destroy most economies, therefore making the countries dependant on the eu.

If you have to use a cosh to stop members leaving, then something has gone very wrong.

Private_Church

gfplux wrote: »

You are spot on. Most Britains know a little more about the EU now that Britain is leaving which is very sad.
As the next months pass our knowledge is likely to grow further as the negotiations unfold.
what no one knows is what represents a "good deal" (that is exceptable to the 27)

I feel like I am waiting in the crowd hoping someone will shout out, "the King has no cloths"

Do you think the average Pole,Lithuanian,Bulgarian,Romanian or Frenchman is more informed about the EU than the average Brit?..

No offence but from reading your posts 12 months prior to the Brexit vote and posts since you do seem to get a buzz from having a dig at the average Brit. From my experience of travelling across Europe and meeting EU migrants in the UK they are no more or less "educated" about the EU than we are.

I was chatting to a couple of Poles the other day and they were moaning how Tesco's in Poland pay no tax and how its the fault of the EU tax rules. They also complained about how Polands nationalised industries had been sold off on the cheap and how that was down to the EU rules.

gfplux

Well given the last few posts attacking me (is it the hot weather that's making you angry?) you will probably enjoy that I am posting the following. It will be interesting to see what the UK papers make of it.

This from a speech TODAY by Chancelor Merkel.

"(AFP) - Europe "must take its fate into its own hands" faced with a western alliance divided by Brexit and Donald Trump's presidency, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said Sunday.
"The times in which we could completely depend on others are on the way out. I've experienced that in the last few days," Merkel told a crowd at an election rally in Munich, southern Germany.
"We Europeans truly have to take our fate into our own hands," she added.
While Germany and Europe would strive to remain on good terms with America and Britain, "we have to fight for our own destiny", Merkel went on."
https://www.wort.lu/en/international/germany-merkel-warns-us-britain-no-longer-reliable-partners-592aea41a5e74263e13c0a03

As you can see others feel the same way about Britain as those posters feel about the EU.
The negotiations at least will be very interesting when they start w/c 19th June. Put it in your diary.

gfplux

Here is another EU leader being quoted today about "the" handshake

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/donald-trump-emmanuel-macron-handshake-moment-of-truth-us-french-president-nato-summit-a7760316.html?cmpid=facebook-post

"French President Emmanuel Macron says his now famous white-knuckle handshake showdown with Donald Trump was “a moment of truth” — designed to show that he's no pushover.
Mr Macron told Le Journal du Dimanche, a Sunday newspaper in France: “my handshake with him, it wasn't innocent.”
The new French leader added: “One must show that you won't make small concessions, even symbolic ones, but also not over-publicise things, either.”