If we vote for Brexit what happens

vivatifosi

gfplux wrote: »

In due course I am going to work on a positive/negative list. Each plus/minus will be one SIMPLE sentence that could be supported by data, not opinion.
Thank you.

That's my approach too.

Incidentally, Full Fact has a fact checking page on the issues surrounding the EU referendum. Here:

https://fullfact.org/europe/

CLAPTON

antrobus wrote: »

Yes, it would be an opinion. And one which you are perfectly entitled to hold.



Mathematics is a science. It's not a matter of faith.

You should disengage rant mode.

is that simply your opinion? (which of course you are entitled to hold.)
many would argue that maths is maths and not a science but that would only be their opinion.

anyway, so you have no 'objective' input to offer about the matter at hand.

Generali

CLAPTON wrote: »

gdp doesn't measure net value: (it might be some sort of measure of price but certainly not value)

the important factors is real income and quality of life
the 30k figure is for real income/quality of life and is an approximation (just like the nonsense GDP figues is an approximation of something not very important).

http://economics.about.com/od/gross-domestic-product/ss/Calculating-Gross-Domestic-Product-Using-Value-Added.htm

Calculating Gross Domestic Product Using Value Added

The total value added at all stages of production is what is then counted in gross domestic product, assuming of course that all stages occurred within the economy's borders rather than in other economies. Note that the total value added is in fact equal to the market value of the final good produced, namely the $3.50 carton of orange juice. Mathematically, this total is equal to the value of the final output as long as the value chain goes all the way back to the first stage of production, where the value of the inputs to production is equal to zero.

Hope that helps.

One of the three ways to calculate GDP is to total the value added at each stage of production. Happy to discuss further.

I used to teach 101 economics to Uni students so I do have a reasonable grasp of the subject.

CLAPTON

Generali wrote: »

http://economics.about.com/od/gross-domestic-product/ss/Calculating-Gross-Domestic-Product-Using-Value-Added.htm



Hope that helps.

One of the three ways to calculate GDP is to total the value added at each stage of production. Happy to discuss further.

I used to teach 101 economics to Uni students so I do have a reasonable grasp of the subject.

no it doesn't help at all as it completely and utterly missing the point of what I am saying.

e.g what is the valued added by a persons inability to buy a family house
what is the added value by sitting in a long traffic jam
what is the value added by not being able to see a GP for a week or so

GDP is only a measure of GDP and not even of the goods and services produced and certainly not the quality of life.

You chose to move half way round the world for a 'better' life'.
Is that solely and only measured by your share of GDP or are other factors at work?
Sorry about the question : I know you hate me asking them but you don't have to answer; I merely want to distinguish between the faux god GDP and real life.

Generali

CLAPTON wrote: »

no it doesn't help at all as it completely and utterly missing the point of what I am saying.

e.g what is the valued added by a persons inability to buy a family house
what is the added value by sitting in a long traffic jam
what is the value added by not being able to see a GP for a week or so

GDP is only a measure of GDP and not even of the goods and services produced and certainly not the quality of life.

You chose to move half way round the world for a 'better' life'.
Is that solely and only measured by your share of GDP or are other factors at work?
Sorry about the question : I know you hate me asking them but you don't have to answer; I merely want to distinguish between the faux god GDP and real life.

FWIW, I moved across the world for a better quality of life especially for my kids. GDP per head in Australia is broadly similar to that in the UK.

GDP per head is the best measure we have for measuring something very specific which is the level of economic activity in a country. One of the ways of measuring that economic activity is to measure the total amount of value added in a year.

GDP doesn't measure how long it takes to see a GP or the price of a house but then it's not meant to. There are other things that can measure those sorts of metrics.

What I think we can say is that GDP per head is a pretty good proxy for an average gross income in a country. Yes, it fails to capture all sorts of things such as unpaid work and GDP maximisation shouldn't be the sole goal of a society or Government. However increased GDP is linked to some good things like higher levels of employment and better health outcomes so it probably isn't a bad thing to have as one policy aim.

kabayiri

I'm more interested in the referendum process itself.

Will we end up with 2 entrenched positions, unwilling to listen to each other, and a bunch of undecideds in the middle being courted by whatever means works?

CLAPTON

Generali wrote: »

FWIW, I moved across the world for a better quality of life especially for my kids. GDP per head in Australia is broadly similar to that in the UK.

GDP per head is the best measure we have for measuring something very specific which is the level of economic activity in a country. One of the ways of measuring that economic activity is to measure the total amount of value added in a year.

GDP doesn't measure how long it takes to see a GP or the price of a house but then it's not meant to. There are other things that can measure those sorts of metrics.

What I think we can say is that GDP per head is a pretty good proxy for an average gross income in a country. Yes, it fails to capture all sorts of things such as unpaid work and GDP maximisation shouldn't be the sole goal of a society or Government. However increased GDP is linked to some good things like higher levels of employment and better health outcomes so it probably isn't a bad thing to have as one policy aim.

then we agree that per capita GDP fails to measure many important aspects of life that are specifically relevant to BREXIT.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

kabayiri wrote: »

Will we end up with 2 entrenched positions, unwilling to listen to each other, and a bunch of undecideds in the middle being courted by whatever means works?

Unfortunately we're already there.

CLAPTON

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Unfortunately we're already there.

why 'unfortunately'?

generally there are people with good reasons to hold their own views and have already heard the alternative view dozens of times.
Unless there are new facts, why should they change their long held views?

antrobus

Generali wrote: »

FWIW, I moved across the world for a better quality of life especially for my kids. GDP per head in Australia is broadly similar to that in the UK.....

I think it's about 10% higher Aus, making it closer to Sweden than the UK, but it's in the same 'developed world' ballpark.

Generali wrote: »

...GDP per head is the best measure we have for measuring something very specific which is the level of economic activity in a country. One of the ways of measuring that economic activity is to measure the total amount of value added in a year.....

GDP is a measure of economic activity. Knocking it for failing to take account of things that aren't economic activity sort of misses the point by a country mile.