If we vote for Brexit what happens

Generali

CLAPTON wrote: »

if you were a more knowledgeable person you would know the GDP is a false measure of real income and quality of life.
the impact of immigration in the current numbers has led to a lower standard of living of the native people than previously experienced
unfortunately we don't have a more appropriate measure of quality of life but that doesn't change the reality.

GDP doesn't claim to measure income nor quality of life. GDP claims to measure net value added by an economy.

How did you come up with the £30,000 figure? You were quite specific.

Generali

antrobus wrote: »

And what would (hypothetically) in that deal, would be a matter of negotiations.

Both sides might, for example, agree that EU type approval regulations for motor vehicles would continue to apply, and that the rate of customs duty for motor vehicles would be 0%. There you go, that's motor vehicles dealt with; now on to pharmaceuticals and the rest.

Hmm. Do you think that the EU should give its IP of how to make a car fit for the EU market over to a non-EU UK for free? I'd want paying.

kabayiri

Regardless of the indy ref outcome, can we please make sure that the date is 4th July.

Several reasons why 4th July is "independence day" :-
- Americans already have the day off; it will make it easier when we become one of the states in good 'ole USA
- the weather will be warmer than in February

CLAPTON

Generali wrote: »

GDP doesn't claim to measure income nor quality of life. GDP claims to measure net value added by an economy.

How did you come up with the £30,000 figure? You were quite specific.

gdp doesn't measure net value: (it might be some sort of measure of price but certainly not value)

the important factors is real income and quality of life
the 30k figure is for real income/quality of life and is an approximation (just like the nonsense GDP figues is an approximation of something not very important).

kabayiri

Generali wrote: »

Hmm. Do you think that the EU should give its IP of how to make a car fit for the EU market over to a non-EU UK for free? I'd want paying.

We will be driving mostly Korean cars in the future anyway (until Chinese and Indian cars catch up).

The Euro car makers will be sued from all quarters for fiddling anything measurable; even the size of the cup holders. They'd be lucky to afford anything on IP. They will spend all their pennies on compliance.

antrobus

kabayiri wrote: »

We will be driving mostly Korean cars in the future anyway (until Chinese and Indian cars catch up).

The Euro car makers will be sued from all quarters for fiddling anything measurable; even the size of the cup holders. They'd be lucky to afford anything on IP. They will spend all their pennies on compliance.

A lot of theose Korean cars are made in the EU. Hyundai has a plant in the Czech Republic, Kia has one in Slovakia (or it might be the other way around, I'm not sure). Anyway, they swap production, which is why Hyundais and Kias all seem remarkably similar. I imagine that's because of the EU tariff on imported motor vehicles; I think it's about 10%.

P.S. Is there anything wrong with Romanian cars? Those Dacias are mostly Renaults anyway.:)

antrobus

CLAPTON wrote: »

gdp doesn't measure net value: (it might be some sort of measure of price but certainly not value)

the important factors is real income and quality of life
the 30k figure is for real income/quality of life and is an approximation (just like the nonsense GDP figues is an approximation of something not very important).

To an economist, price and value are the same thing.

You might well say that you believe that a different set of prices should be used and even applied to some other things that aren't currently quantified, anc come up with a different number.

Fine. Set out the methodology and crunch that number.:)

kabayiri

antrobus wrote: »

A lot of theose Korean cars are made in the EU. Hyundai has a plant in the Czech Republic, Kia has one in Slovakia (or it might be the other way around, I'm not sure). Anyway, they swap production, which is why Hyundais and Kias all seem remarkably similar. I imagine that's because of the EU tariff on imported motor vehicles; I think it's about 10%.

P.S. Is there anything wrong with Romanian cars? Those Dacias are mostly Renaults anyway.:)

I worked with a major global outfit, which made a decision to shift a manufacturing plant with several thousand employees from an American state to SE Asia.

It was so matter of fact. I admit I was surprised.

Cars are becoming more modular all the time. I wouldn't be surprised if manufacturing could be switched to suppliers around the world in the future.

Do you think Apple will care where it's future iCar will be made?
(my money would be on China and not Romania in future)

CLAPTON

antrobus wrote: »

To an economist, price and value are the same thing.

You might well say that you believe that a different set of prices should be used and even applied to some other things that aren't currently quantified, anc come up with a different number.

Fine. Set out the methodology and crunch that number.:)

No, economists well know the difference: it's covered in the first chapter of most first year economics text books
somewhere afterwards it gets forgotten : just like so many PC issues. Anyway its irrelevant as I am talking about the real world of real people and not acedemia

To know something is FALSE doesn't equate to having a comprehensive alternative.

However, we don't need a comprehensive alternative to note
-that price of london property is determined largely by supply and demand
-that demand is affected by the number of people wanting to live there
-the the number of people that want to live there is heavily influenced by immigration
-the inability of reasonably paid 30-40 years old to be unable to afford a modest family house has a major impact of quality of life
-there is no reasonable expectation that the supply side can provide sufficient to correct the situation within any reasonable time frame.
-whilst it may be arguable that the god GDP has increased with immigration, it is less true that per capita GDP has done like wise and it's clearly true that the quality of life has decreased

antrobus

CLAPTON wrote: »

No, economists well know the difference: it's covered in the first chapter of most first year economics text books somewhere afterwards it gets forgotten : just like so many PC issues.

Once you read beyond the first chapter you discover that economics concluded long ago that the words 'price' and 'value' mean the same thing, and those that seek to differentiate between the two are simply saying that the market price is somehow 'wrong' and that a different number should be applied.

And economics has the tools to cope with that kind of argument.

CLAPTON wrote: »

...Anyway its irrelevant as I am talking about the real world of real people and not acedemia

A strange remark to make. In the 'real world of real people' it's price that matters. You are the one that wants to replace that with some academic notion of 'value'.

CLAPTON wrote: »

..To know something is FALSE doesn't equate to having a comprehensive alternative.

It bl00dy well does if you want public policy to change. You need to come up with something a bit better than an assertion that something is "false", but can't be bothered to come up with something different.

CLAPTON wrote: »

..However, we don't need a comprehensive alternative to note
-that price of london property is determined largely by supply and demand
-that demand is affected by the number of people wanting to live there
-the the number of people that want to live there is heavily influenced by immigration
-the inability of reasonably paid 30-40 years old to be unable to afford a modest family house has a major impact of quality of life
-there is no reasonable expectation that the supply side can provide sufficient to correct the situation within any reasonable time frame.
-whilst it may be arguable that the god GDP has increased with immigration, it is less true that per capita GDP has done like wise and it's clearly true that the quality of life has decreased

I don't think that boils down to anything more than an assertion that money isn't the only consideration we should take into account when making a political decision.

Big deal. I doubt you'd find many people, economists included, who would disagree with that proposition.